We had this huge discussion at work today, and i thought i'd get your opinions.
The statement was this: "We have to many people becoming nurses for the money. Its not like it used to be, where a nurse chose to be a nurse because they liked helping people. Its all about the money,."
We were talking about the increased patient complaints, and an older nurse stated the above and thats the reason for increased patient complaints.
It has been my experience that alot of the inept nurses only went to nursing school for their MRS degree. And they're just sticking it out till the right doctor recognizes them. . .
You know, I am going to say something here that no one else has said, I don't think...
I really enjoy nursing because I feel it's the type of job for me. I like being busy at work (I couldn't stand to sit at a desk all day!) and I like being active, and working with my hands and my brain. Also, it is exciting sometimes, and every shift is different. It is unpredictable, I never truly know what is going to happen from one minute to the next. Very cool.
While I wouldn't say I went in it for the money either, I sure wouldn't do it if for minimum wage. My family comes first, and us having a roof over our heads and food on the table is a must. If I am less of a nurse for feeling like that's a priority, that's ridiculous!!
Oh, and I consider one of the fringe benefits of my job the nice, 'caring' moments I can have with my patients sometimes. Very nice, but not the primary reason I went into nursing.
Yes, on a postive note, I agree with that. I like nrsg because I'm not sitting around, I meet a variety of interesting people, there's good workplace commeraderie, it's not a boring routine, get to do some nifty technical stuff, and there's rarely a dull moment (except when doing orthostatics...:zzzzz )
I don't believe that the level of education determines how good of a nurse you are. I worked really hard to get into my asn program and all I have every wanted was to be a nurse. I believe that to make a good nurse it has to do with your drive and determination to be good at what you love. Because if you truely love what you do you work hard to be the best you can possibly be at it and if you do have and areas that needed improvement you would try your hardest to change and fix the problem.
I have had so many people tell me I believe you should have to attain a BSN but, I have experienced for my self when I was pregnant with my daugther bad BSN nurses AND ASN nurses. The education is not the problem it lies within the person. That person decides do I really love nursing or do I just want to take that job for other reasons than helping others and because this is something I really want to do. If you take any job for reasons that are superfical it will just back fire on you and the others in the profession that are working hard and love what they do everyday. NOT to metion the damage it does to people who want to get into nursing.
I agree that might be the result in some cases. I feel put down by arrogant BSN nurses who think they are superior.
I don't feel put down by intelligent discussion advocating a BSN nurse is the better idea. That the ANA and certain acedemic universities are advocating BSN as the entry level, doesn't put me down at all. I have no issue with my education and my qualifications as an ADN nurse, and my role in health care.
ADN nurses shouldn't be put down by the movement. Nor should BSN advocates feel the need to be silenced because some have issues with feeling put down.
Am I making sense at all? :rotfl:
and off we go.........................
IT is not the degree a person has that makes them arrogant but the person. I think that for uniformity there should me a minimum level of education that every nurse should meet. I am a BSN student and I do feel I have some advantages because of my education, but I have some deficiencies as well. What makes a nurse a bad nurse is not level of education but how they use it and not recognizing their limitations.
IT is not the degree a person has that makes them arrogant but the person. I think that for uniformity there should me a minimum level of education that every nurse should meet. I am a BSN student and I do feel I have some advantages because of my education, but I have some deficiencies as well. What makes a nurse a bad nurse is not level of education but how they use it and not recognizing their limitations.
I can't disagree with you here at all. You're opinion is one that has been voiced over and over here. You stated it very respectfully and I appreciate that.
I was in the breakroom once at work when a nurse said "Any ADN can hang a bag of fluid with potassium in it, but it takes a BSN to understand what it means....". That's the kind of arrogance I'm talking about here.
Please don't take it as I think the degree creates an arrogant person.
I am an ADN nurse who can see the advantage of the BSN, I'm enrolled in an RN to BSN program and hope to graduate in 2007, if Statistics and Reasearch doesn't drive me totally insane first.
Specializes in Telemetry, ICU, Resource Pool, Dialysis.
i don't believe that the level of education determines how good of a nurse you are. i worked really hard to get into my asn program and all i have every wanted was to be a nurse. i believe that to make a good nurse it has to do with your drive and determination to be good at what you love. because if you truely love what you do you work hard to be the best you can possibly be at it and if you do have and areas that needed improvement you would try your hardest to change and fix the problem.
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ding ding ding!!!! we have a winner, folks!!!! man, this is just what i was gonna say! thank you.
This topic of LPN-ADN-BSN will never end...I agree with what people have said, it isnt the degree that makes the nurse...it is really how that nurse takes on the role of nursing.
I think personally a good way to end this problem is have promotion things...while a person works on his or her degree, CNA to LPN to ADN to BSN to MSN. I think that is a great way for understanding and developing knowledge.
I do have to disagree that certain degrees offer a better advantage...I am just curious to what is that advantage other than positions and pay. I say this with a grain of salt because I did nursing school I am still in nursing school for a higher degree...I find that my knowledge doesn't all come from those books...I would say about 25% of it does the other 75% is on the job. So I think it is reasonable to come to the conclusion that a particular person of a lower degree may very well be more capable or experienced. There is good and bad at every level.
What all really comes down to is a person...and his/her willingness and eagerness to learn and to be envolved, hence be capable of being a better nurse. I have seen all sides of the tracks..I have seen BSN who doesn't put forth the effort or have the desire to learn, I have seen it in ADN and LPN also...I guess I think of that as a person who is comfortable where he/she is at and content...not my thing but hey if it works for you use it. Then I have personally seen lower degrees excell at different levels.
I had a discussion with a NP once, she was very against ADN and LPN, because she stated that caused the rest of the nurses not to be treated as professionals..I totally disagreed and felt there is a need in healthcare for all levels of nursing. Unfort. those levels are decided by education and not individually.
I have been an LPN for 5yrs, CNA before that...now in school for my ADN...I have always been goal orientated...ADN, BSN and then PA school...(not NP because PA's are used in most ER's) Now why am I continueing my education for that, well I want to work in departments where a need is greater for a particular degree, but also I can't stand be in one spot or stasis. Due to my experiennde and knowledge, I am respect at higher levels but you have to understand that respect was earned not given on title alone.
I was tested along with other LPN's and RN's on just regular nursing knowledge...very few RN's did as well as most of the LPN's...that I find interesting...because I don't think they are less intelligent...I just think that LPN's have to strive for knowledge, at least I do...but I also find it interesting in the aspect of who is content and feels they know enough. IT was an interesting test...basically consisted of A&P, Body systems and diseases and their treatments, Nursing practices, such as procedures. The hospital tested all of it's nurses LPN, ADN, BSN...I think about 50 of us tested...highest scores were LPN, ADN and then BSN...alot of things could be taken into consideration for that test, not taking the test seriously...tiredness. The hospital learned alot with that test, I think alot of nurses did also..it wasn't easy I will tell you that. After this being said...a particular degree should NEVER dictate a person's capabilites as a nurse...such as a particular degree should never dictate who gets what form of respect...respect is earned on a personal level, not just given.
The most important thing I learned was that every level offers a new perspective...a new area of expertise...don't think you are superior because you got a title. Realize you can always learn something. Hence the reason I think male's make excellant nurses...they can offer different perspectives on things in nursing. Anatomy alone tells us women that we think differently than our counter parts. But you know...as long as you are satisfied and content..that is all that matters.
I don't know when you went through nursing school, but everyone i know- both in my geographic area and beyond- MUST stay in the game by spending the vast majority of 3-3.5 years on an ADN degree and 4-5 for a BSN. I applaud you for being able to do what you did, but your assertion that "It can be done in 2 years" is, frankly, not true in the majority of cases.
And I'd like to add that I have 5 friends who are MSCWs. All five considered nursing school before getting a master's in social work, and ALL said it would be "way too hard" to go through nursing school. It's not easy money, it's not fast, and it's not less effort than almost anything else I could've pursued after I was laid off from corporate america, especially something that would give me reasonable job security and portability. It's wicked hard, and it's nearly impossible to do it in the advertised minimum time.
It actually took me about 2 1/2 years total for the ADN, LPN in '84, RN upgrade in '98, but compared to professions that require minimum BS/A's or the MCSW's you refer to, less time is spent in the process to reach the golden ring. I don't think nursing is easy, if you are a good nurse. Nursing school was pretty tough, too. I also think most nurses are good nurses. Waiting on a list and the process of weeding out in nursing school is effective at eliminating the poorer candidates. I was agreeing with bobnurse only in that if nursing school took longer than it did, those who were less inclined to join nursing for the right reasons would find something else.
Did I skip this part? What about managers??? What prompted them to become managers?? More money, better benefits, Mon-Fri, no holidays, etc. Many of them have forgotten what it was like as a staff nurse, have little empahty or support for their staff. Should THEY remain as nurses??? Maybe they should be required to work as staff of some sort so many hours per year to maintain their licenses??? That might just keep them supportive to know what their staff is doing??
elizabells, BSN, RN
2,094 Posts
don't feed the trolls, kids...