We had this huge discussion at work today, and i thought i'd get your opinions.
The statement was this: "We have to many people becoming nurses for the money. Its not like it used to be, where a nurse chose to be a nurse because they liked helping people. Its all about the money,."
We were talking about the increased patient complaints, and an older nurse stated the above and thats the reason for increased patient complaints.
Bob, thanks for your input. You guys are having a reasonable discussion, each with valid points. You guys are holding up well.
I agree, nursing is a fast track to decent wages and that's why many choose it. But don't loose fact what has been pointed out many times in this thread. In the long run, for the most of us, it also about more than that. Money...yes absolutely. Money, only? Maybe at first, but to make it through all that struggle, stress, excrement, etc.....probably more goes into than that.
Just a humble opinion. No research being done. That's next semester's course. LOL
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Sbic, many nurses have made extensive time committments to become nurses, esp nowadays. (I sure did). Ever hear of the waiting lists to get in to nursing school? Some have to wait 2-3 years or MORE just to GET In!!!!!
And the fact that a typical "two year" ADN takes more like 3-4? and the BSN more like 5? Just how MUCH "time committment" is enough for you or others, to "eliminate bad seeds" really?
Sbic, many nurses have made extensive time committments to become nurses, esp nowadays. (I sure did). Ever hear of the waiting lists to get in to nursing school? Some have to wait 2-3 years or MORE just to GET In!!!!!
And the fact that a typical "two year" ADN takes more like 3-4? and the BSN more like 5? Just how MUCH "time committment" is enough for you or others, to "eliminate bad seeds" really?
Ok I promised to go, and I am outa here....later!
Deb, I'm with you here. Nursing school is the toughest, hardest most demanding thing I've ever done. Go to the student boards, it's tough, it's time consuming and students drop out like flies. I think we're weeding out bad seeds just fine, and unfortunately a few good ones too.
Besides, we eat our bad seeds while their young don't ya know. :chuckle
Sbic, many nurses have made extensive time committments to become nurses, esp nowadays. (I sure did). Ever hear of the waiting lists to get in to nursing school? Some have to wait 2-3 years or MORE just to GET In!!!!!
And the fact that a typical "two year" ADN takes more like 3-4? and the BSN more like 5? Just how MUCH "time committment" is enough for you or others, to "eliminate bad seeds" really?
Ok I promised to go, and I am outa here....later!
Please don't take your ball and go yet. :chuckle
I don't consider waiting a "time commitment". I was talking about the financial commitment and actual time put in at becoming a nurse. Three or four years spread out is not a huge commitment IMO. I did that, too...LPN to RN, raising kids alone, that stuff. Doable as it was spread out and didn't break me. But, it can be done in 2 years and I am agreeing with bob that if it took 6 years, many would not do it. Granted, we'd lose some great nurses that could not make the 6 year commitment, but it'd also weed out the duds or those looking for the fast track to financial (semi) security with less effort than it takes to do some other things. One example that comes to mind is how long LCSW's have to go to school to make $10,000 less, on average, than you and I do. Or the Computer Science major(my son) who after earning a BSN made $28,000 to start. (Granted this is Maine and thank goodness has got a fair raise, but that's beside the point)
to close out the thought on the ADN/BSN debate: the reason why it always comes up in the controversial threads is that it is tangential to alot of controversial topics.
Even being a "newbie" here, I lurked enough first to know it's: "OMGosh, not that stale topic again!!!" I would never bring it up, for that reason.
But you understand that when you say that longer degrees would weed out 'bad' nurses, you are really saying that shorter degree programs cause 'bad' nurses.
And that has to be rebutted. I just rebutted it along the logical track of that argument: yes, the same, old tired argument.
Without going into it again: Can you not see why it's insulting to be constantly told that, because I'm a 'technical' nurse, I'm holding back my profession. Especially when nothing could be further from the truth. Even the die-hard pro-BSNs will tell you it's not a peer thing; it's an image thing. But you're still pointing to me and saying that I'm the reason why RN's credibility/respect is awful.
If that sparks a defensiveness that creeps into all the controversial debates everytime length of education is even remotely touched upon, then I can fully understand why.
I'm not holding down my profession: I'm advancing it. While I don't need to be told that, I do get tired, and yes, defensive of inuendo otherwise.
To directly rebut the theory: I stand with what other people have posted that the time and effort to get in, and the excellence required to beat the cuts and the stress, etc is more than enough to weed out 'bad' nurses. If you didn't have goals or qualities on top of money, you won't survive nursing school. AND EVEN IF YOU DO, you'll just end up a drop-out stat a few years later.
I agree that alot of people are attracted by 'easy money' but the process weeds most of them out sufficiently without extending program lengths.
I think the problem is that nursing school wastes its time on care plans that nobody ever uses and doesn't spend nearly enough time on 'critical thinking skills'. Most of the 'bad' nurses that i've come across just can't seem to process and prioritize.
But even so, I think being a 'critical thinking' nurse is as much an art as a skill. You can teach the skill, but the art is something that is probably too abstract for the classroom.
to close out the thought on the ADN/BSN debate: the reason why it always comes up in the controversial threads is that it is tangential to alot of controversial topics.
Even being a "newbie" here, I lurked enough first to know it's: "OMGosh, not that stale topic again!!!" I would never bring it up, for that reason.
But you understand that when you say that longer degrees would weed out 'bad' nurses, you are really saying that shorter degree programs cause 'bad' nurses.
And that has to be rebutted. I just rebutted it along the logical track of that argument: yes, the same, old tired argument.
Without going into it again: Can you not see why it's insulting to be constantly told that, because I'm a 'technical' nurse, I'm holding back my profession. Especially when nothing could be further from the truth. Even the die-hard pro-BSNs will tell you it's not a peer thing; it's an image thing. But you're still pointing to me and saying that I'm the reason why RN's credibility/respect is awful.
If that sparks a defensiveness that creeps into all the controversial debates everytime length of education is even remotely touched upon, then I can fully understand why.
I'm not holding down my profession: I'm advancing it. While I don't need to be told that, I do get tired, and yes, defensive of inuendo otherwise.
To directly rebut the theory: I stand with what other people have posted that the time and effort to get in, and the excellence required to beat the cuts and the stress, etc is more than enough to weed out 'bad' nurses. If you didn't have goals or qualities on top of money, you won't survive nursing school. AND EVEN IF YOU DO, you'll just end up a drop-out stat a few years later.
I agree that alot of people are attracted by 'easy money' but the process weeds most of them out sufficiently without extending program lengths.
I think the problem is that nursing school wastes its time on care plans that nobody ever uses and doesn't spend nearly enough time on 'critical thinking skills'. Most of the 'bad' nurses that i've come across just can't seem to process and prioritize.
But even so, I think being a 'critical thinking' nurse is as much an art as a skill. You can teach the skill, but the art is something that is probably too abstract for the classroom.
Specializes in PICU, Nurse Educator, Clinical Research.
Please don't take your ball and go yet. :chuckle
I don't consider waiting a "time commitment". I was talking about the financial commitment and actual time put in at becoming a nurse. Three or four years spread out is not a huge commitment IMO. I did that, too...LPN to RN, raising kids alone, that stuff. Doable as it was spread out and didn't break me. But, it can be done in 2 years and I am agreeing with bob that if it took 6 years, many would not do it. Granted, we'd lose some great nurses that could not make the 6 year commitment, but it'd also weed out the duds or those looking for the fast track to financial (semi) security with less effort than it takes to do some other things. One example that comes to mind is how long LCSW's have to go to school to make $10,000 less, on average, than you and I do. Or the Computer Science major(my son) who after earning a BSN made $28,000 to start. (Granted this is Maine and thank goodness has got a fair raise, but that's beside the point)
I don't know when you went through nursing school, but everyone i know- both in my geographic area and beyond- MUST stay in the game by spending the vast majority of 3-3.5 years on an ADN degree and 4-5 for a BSN. I applaud you for being able to do what you did, but your assertion that "It can be done in 2 years" is, frankly, not true in the majority of cases.
And I'd like to add that I have 5 friends who are MSCWs. All five considered nursing school before getting a master's in social work, and ALL said it would be "way too hard" to go through nursing school. It's not easy money, it's not fast, and it's not less effort than almost anything else I could've pursued after I was laid off from corporate america, especially something that would give me reasonable job security and portability. It's wicked hard, and it's nearly impossible to do it in the advertised minimum time.
It has been my experience that alot of the inept nurses only went to nursing school for their MRS degree. And they're just sticking it out till the right doctor recognizes them. . .
Tweety, BSN, RN
36,338 Posts
Bob, thanks for your input. You guys are having a reasonable discussion, each with valid points. You guys are holding up well.
I agree, nursing is a fast track to decent wages and that's why many choose it. But don't loose fact what has been pointed out many times in this thread. In the long run, for the most of us, it also about more than that. Money...yes absolutely. Money, only? Maybe at first, but to make it through all that struggle, stress, excrement, etc.....probably more goes into than that.
Just a humble opinion. No research being done. That's next semester's course. LOL