what do nurses hate about doctors?

[futureMD]

Not trying to start a flamewar here or anything like that but as an incoming MS I this fall, what are some of the things that doctors do that usually ****** off a nurse? Dr's yelling about missing charts? Yelling for waking them up in the middle of the night? Give me a list so that when I become an MD, I'll be aware of these things and try to avoid them.

[moonshadeau, ADN, BSN, MSN, RN, APN, NP, CNS]

Wash your hands when you enter and exit a room. The rest of us have to.

Same goes for isolation garb. There is no invisable force field that will protect you from the nasty germs.

Be respectful and always be willing to learn from nurses.

[talaxandra]

I'd like to echo those who've thanked the OP for starting this thread.

I like the vast majority of doctors I've worked with over the past 19 years, and like to think we generally have a rapport. Obviously this is not always the case, but the exceptions have been mercifully rare, and vastly outweighed by the doctors who are exceptional.

I think most people drawn to medicine, particularly those who've had the tenacity to stick through all those years of training, are motivated by more than money - there are easier ways to make a buck.

I respect that medical staff (often) have more knowledge than I do, and find that they (usually) respect that I have more experience than they do - both in terms of contact time and in caring for the patient I'm talking with them about.

I appreciate that my patients aren't the only patients each doctor has, particularly out of hours, and that - though this is a priority for me - some of those patients may have more pressing issues. Or perhaps the doctor's in clinic, theatre, or a pager black spot - in any case, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But if it's urgent (and I always include enough information to assist the doctor to prioritise) and I don't get a prompt response, and this always happens with the doctor I'm calling, I'm not going to be pleased.

Nurses do save doctors - and nurses save nurses, doctors save doctors, and doctors save nurses - we all screw up on occasion. Hopefully we all manage to save the patients who need saving.

Last thing: I cannot believe the heinous hours trainee doctors are expected to work in the US - conditions are significantly better (or at least less worse) here and (according to Sharrie) in the UK.

[tanthalas]

The bottom line is this: treat nurses/PT/RT/CNA/LPN/Patients/patient family/etc the same way you'd like to be treated.

The golden rule is the golden rule for a reason.

[RN_in_SC]

I didn't read the other replies, but I can tell you that mainly the nurses I have worked with (and me) don't have a problem with doctors.

BUT there was this one, he was arrogant and treated nurses like non-humans. He also was callous with his patients and because of his ego wound up killing at least one patient I know of. He would never admit he was incorrect and got very upset even when other doctors questioned his orders. He never communicated well with the patient and they were always asking us questions because they never understood what the doctor was talking about. The doctor would never talk at the patient's level. I think he considered himself better than that.

There was another surgeon and none of the nurses wanted his patients post-op because they tended to hemmorhage. The nurses called him "the butcher".

[SteveNNP, MSN, NP]

I don't yell at my nurses.

And therein lies the problem. We are not "your" nurses. We are the patient's nurse. Which is exactly why we don't mind calling you if we feel it's important, even if you may not...

[RN_in_SC]

And therein lies the problem. We are not "your" nurses. We are the patient's nurse. Which is exactly why we don't mind calling you if we feel it's important, even if you may not...

Right On!!! :up:

[al7139, ASN, RN]

As an nurse with a little over 1 year experience, I have to say that the MD/Nurse relationship is a two way street. I usually work the 3pm-11pm shift, but occasionally moonlight on the 11pm to 7am shift. I know most of our hospitalists and the regular cardiologists that work on my unit (telemetry). As a brand new nurse, I was scared to call any MD in the wee hours of the night, and would usually consult a preceptor before doing so (this is because I heard how mean doctors could be). With time, and experience, and confidence, I now know these things:

1. If I am calling a MD in the middle of the night, it's because of a real problem that requires their input, and most docs, when they hear it's me, know that the pt is in trouble or I would not be calling.

2. The docs know that if I call them and they don't give me orders then they can bet that I will document that, and they can answer to their superiors and explain why they did not do anything.

3. Just because you have an MD behind your name doesn't mean you have the right to treat me like your personal servant, and in some ways I am more educated than some doctors, since I spend all my hours at th ebedside, and they spend very little time with my patients.

4. Referring to the above statement; The doctors that treat the nurses with respect, and value the fact that we are their eyes and ears, and trust us to let them know when things are not going well, are our favorite MD's to work with. They do not mind when we call, no matter what the time, and will trust our assessment, and give us guidance. And they don't mind if we ask "Why do you want to do this instead of that?" since it's our job to question and make sure the right thing is done.

It's hard to be pleasant all the time (I know I have a hard time if I am stressed!), but even if you have a "moment" where you snap at a staff member, or whatever, come back later and apologise, or at least explain why you were upset.

I agree with a previous poster that the "Golden Rule" applies no matter where you work, and if you stick to that, you will be fine.

All the MD's I work with get my respect, but those I like are the ones who treat us as the educated nurses we are.

Amy

[ZippyGBR, BSN, RN]

Nurses don't sleep at night. Required to stay awake on the night shift. Docs get call rooms and sleep when they can. Just a helpful piece of info.

wait until US labour legislation catches up with the UK and the Juniors / hospitalists are on full shift rotas like the ED ...

[canoehead, BSN, RN]

Wash your hands.

You will get inappropriate calls at night, but please answer the question and then nicely say "this could have waited til morning." You'll either get more information about why it had to be called in immediately, or a new nurse will learn something.

All the cliches about nurses being MD's eyes and ears are true...but there are lazy nurses, as well as laziness in any profession. If you go off on someone that richly deserves it, remember that the good nurses, and the green nurses are both listening to the way you handle the situation. A great dressing down will change the relationship you have with everyone that hears it (or hears about it).

Making calls to other docs, or finding the paperwork you need, or researching on a patient, are all things we are capable of doing, but nursing ratios are hideous. We are usually very very happy to help the docs that help themselves. As a general rule, if you need the paper or test result, you need to look it up/find it. Or go to the nurse and say " I tried here, here, and here, but I don't know where to look now" I could kiss the docs that try on their own first.

"My nurse" is an inappropriate phrase, and a hot button for some. "The nurse" is better received.

There are rules made by the hospital that we have to follow, and they can't be changed by a docs order- for example, smoking rules, visitation or staying overnight, foods and drink available, (especially when the kitchen is closed,) and equipment restrictions (we don't have a recliner for everyone). Please don't tell the family they can do something when it involves extra work for nursing, or goes outside hospital policies. Even if the attending has said he does it all the time. Talk to the nurses ahead of time, or write "at nursing discretion" in the orders. FYI patients that are silky sweet to the docs can be absolute buttholes to nursing staff, and are frequently very manipulative.

When a conflict arises, or someone questions you, don't be the doc that digs their heels in and says no just because someone questioned you. Use the situation as a teaching opportunity, and go through your reasoning verbally. As you're talking it out, work through the problem freshly yourself. We may know of other hospital resources, or we may just need assurance that the patient isn't being forgotten in your huge workload. Sometimes it's worth an extra lab draw to prove the patient isn't going down the tubes.

If a parent of a patient, or an experienced nurse, says something isn't quite right, you ignore that hunch at your peril. That not-quite-right feeling precedes a lot of cardiac arrests, for the love of Pete walk into the room and lay hands on the patient, and go out and order some labs- you'll be glad they've been drawn if the patient takes a dive.

If you don't know what to do next, an experienced nurse can point you in the right direction. Even if we couldn't do your job we know a lot about what is usually done in these situations. And definitely call your supervisor to check in. It covers your butt, and makes you a teamplayer in our eyes. More respect is good all around.

[CO2emission]

I totally agree. Like nurses are squeaky clean with no lateral violence or devouring their young! I've had more problems with nurses than doctors. It works both ways. One word...respect... doctors and nurses are incidental.

[futureMD]

Thanks again for all the responses! I've printed all eight pages and intend to read the whole thing from time to time (I did the same with my personal statement which serves as a great reminder why I want to be a doctor... figured it'll help me during rough times).

Good luck to everyone and thanks again...

[SDS_RN, RN]

Just don't be an *** & treat us w/ respect. We don't call you about your pts for kicks it's because our pt needs something that I can't get for them w/out an order. Don't tell me to call you when/if your pt's coding by then you probably should have done something. Work w/ me and not against me I have been educated and trained. I spend more time w/ the pt than you so I know when something just isn't right w/ them.

Some docs I work w/ are great and a handful think they are God and we are the scum on the bottom of their shoe.

The Golden Rule is best. Remeber we are all working toward the same goal so help me help you to get our pt to where they need to be.

You sound like you'll be one of the good ones. Good luck.