what do nurses hate about doctors?

aloevera · Jul 20, 2008

doctors think they are God.....surgeons know they are.....

bobweiss · Jul 20, 2008

An interesting question indeed and since it may prove related I'll make some comments from a different perspective. First, may I state I am not a doctor. The username is coincidental and has a long, humorous background in my case.

I'm a male senior citizen outpatient (cardiology) who is by nature pro-active in all things, not the least of which is health care as it effects me. As I came to realize I had issues I immediately commenced educating myself in the basics of cardiology and ancillary subjects and familiarizing myself with the related terminology so I could interchange with the doctors and nurses at their level. Being relegated to the VA for the bulk of my care I came very quickly to realize that I'd be, in general, dealing with the bottom 20% of the graduating class so I'd best be informed and always make the point to the doctors that any decision on suggested care is a "joint matter" to be decided after a brief medical colliquy between doctor and patient and not an arbitrary decision by a doctor alone. My observation is that competent physicians appreciate a patient who is into his health care regimen and problems (though it irritates some) and don't feel 'challenged' by me. Poor physicians act quite to the contrary and I have little mercy upon them. Whilst a urology patient, on a particular occasion and suffering from a severely distended bladder due to excessive water consumption (as part of protocol between routine catheter removal/replacement) I was given the old medical version of "benign neglect". I finally reacted by grabbing the urology intern by the shoulder as he tried to pass me by one time too many. I instructed him to look in my eyes and note that after having imbibed over 2 litres of H2O that soon I'd be weeping urine from my eye sockets and if he didn't immediately Foley catherize me that I'd sweep his office desk clear, lie down on my back and self-catherize. It took that to get his attention and immediate response.

Therefore, from a patient perspective I'd note that benign neglect to be a significant issue with doctors. Even when a patient is obviously understanding of his medical issues doctors tend to be dismissive. They also have a great penchant for being very non-specific and non-commital. I explain that, in many cases, as the side effect of a overly litigeous society and of physicians always seeing the dark shadow of a lawyer behind every patient. Most are grossly uninformed and reject out-of-hand any natural/holistic protocols. The fault there is medical schools.

My closing observation would be that those I consider the "enlisted troops", which define all levels of you in nursing from NPs, RNs to PAs et al are those I rely on for more forthright opinion and information and it's how I vette physicians within the VA system. I thank you ALL for your studied dedication. You should know that YOU are the foundational strength of the system. :yeah:

My comment has to do with my observation of doctors from my experience

trixieloohoo · Jul 20, 2008

An attitude of superiority

Rude or dismissive speech

Directed profanity

Preferential behavior / ignoring input from those not considered "equals"

Poor communication

Unclear expectations

Arrogance

Great list- I completely agree. No one likes their humanity diminished by ANYONE- be that an MD, a supervisor, a fellow RN, an administrator, a patient, etc.

We train others how we should be treated. Shame on anyone who pulls rank to get one over on another.

ilstu99 · Jul 20, 2008

I so agree with many of the things listed, and also thank you for asking. Just the simple gesture speaks volumes about your future.

My current personal beef? Don't write an order, or initiate a protocol that states "Notify provider if.....".....and then get crabby because I call you. I have too many things to do to be making 100 frivolous calls per shift, so you can guarantee that if I'm calling, it's something I think you should know. I don't do it because I enjoy the sound of my own voice. I call because I'm concerned about my patient.

bobweiss · Jul 20, 2008

A quick note. I've been advised by a moderator that in using the doctor reference in my username of "doctorhugo" I've violated rules here. I've changed my profile to reflect a new username of "bobweiss". Hopefully it will be entered soon. Thanks all!

Kashia, ASN, LVN · Jul 21, 2008

I won't waste energy hating, but I get your question.

I would like MD's to do a year of nursing. This would pretty much

correct most problems.

Like arrogance.

aloevera · Jul 21, 2008

I won't waste energy hating, but I get your question.
I would like MD's to do a year of nursing. This would pretty much
correct most problems.
Like arrogance.

LOVE IT!!!!!! teach them a little compassion, too...... :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

dubstar · Jul 21, 2008

I don't yell at my nurses. When I am called to see a patient

I did'nt undertake a 3 year degree to become "your nurse" Nursing is a profession, I am not employed by you, I, like you are employed by a hospital.

A patient in hospital is cared for by a TEAM of professionals including RN's, doctors, physio's, occupational therapists, dietians, we all play our part,

Nursing and the provision of medical care is and always has been 24 hours a day, those who can't handle it need to consider their choice of career.

thevicarofblue · Jul 21, 2008

We just returned from three years in the Republic of Panama as missioners. Two days before my husband's ordination to the priesthood, he smashed into pieces of broken his little finger while trying to capture one of our escaping cats--the automatic device that is supposed to stop the automatic door did not work. It was the middle of the night. We had no car and had no idea who or what to call. As Panama has a tremendous taxi system (one actually does not need a car for most places in the city), a young driver stopped us as we were walking down the street, hoping to find a cab. The drive was super fast and super safe (I'm one of those few people who LOVE the creativity of Panamanian cab drivers) and got us to the ER of Paitilla Hospital. It was and remains a stunning experience. No one asked for insurance verification. People said hello, let me help you, I'll get a doctor, I'm sorry you'll have to wait about fifteen minutes for your surgeon; he is coming from home. To me, could I get you water, coffee, Coca Cola? The bathroom is just around that corner. I've always said I'll go to hell because I loathe physicians and therefore will spend all of eternity with them (I actually don't believe in hell in that sense). The surgeon AND the anesthesiologist, along with the circulating nurse and someone else came to introduce themselves to me. They even invited me into the OR, knowing I used to be a nurse (and still had a license). The food was even good! No one got freaked out when they walked in AFTER knocking AND waiting for permission to enter and found us sleeping in the same bed, the hospital bed. Someone kept me informed during the surgery; I am never without a book, knitting, and rosary beads, so I was okay but I appreciated the experience of genuine care. The OR team showed up the next morning just to check in on how we were doing before they left their shift. Nurses, K's surgeon, and his PA were marvelous teachers. Once we had to call for a nurse and the response was made AT THE DOOR and not via that horrible squawk box thing. The entire staff took their time; I often felt we were a guest in someone's home rather than in the 2nd most "exclusive" hospital in all of Panama City. From the ER to Xrays to OR time to the actual procedure and casting, all medications, all doctor visits, anesthesiology and anesthesiologist, nursing care, food EVERYTHING was, get this, $1300.00. Yes, I said thirteen hundred dollars. The PA even asked K what color of wrap he wanted, then laughed and said, "We even have a blue very close to 'Sarum Blue'. You are Anglican, are you not?" (I almost fainted.) The physicians, especially K's surgeon, the nursing staff, and the anesthesiologist all apologised over and over that they could not come to K's ordination as it was in the middle of the morning and, of course, they'd had no notice until the day before. The staff sent flowers, champagne, and food to the cathedral. They asked K to come by to see them in his new priest collar; his MD gave him a beautiful crucifix. They asked for prayer many times or asked to pray; the MD and the circulating nurse said prayers before K's surgery as he was drugged and drooling! They came to pray with me. I am told there was prayer after the surgery. Most folks were very surprised to find an Episcopalian praying the Rosary. We had years of discussion about our churches. Panama is NOT a law-suit happy country and I understood more about that later with follow-up appointments and visits to other doctors and when I accompanied others to various hospitals throughout the country. Physicians work 6 days a week and NOT for greed. They drive regular person cars (at least in the US we'd call them regular person cars like Hondas or Nissans); they live in what we would call "middle class" homes like regular, real, normal people. In our three year experience with several physicians in two towns, we NEVER waited longer than 15 minutes (and that only once except for for one time when we waited an hour and a a half, but more about that later) for an appointment and Panama is one of those places unconcerned with time. My physician apologised over and over that I'd had to wait 15 minutes; she'd just come from a complicated surgery. Usually we waited only a few minutes. We were usually early and we tried to get the first appointment after lunch or in the AM; it was not unusual for your MD to see you in the waiting room, come over, say hello, and invite you into the office for an early visit and/or a cup of coffee. No one hurries you; your physician visits with you; you get to know about her or his life and s/he wants to know about yours. My husband's hand is now perfect; he even has a knuckle and no one, even the surgeon, expected that as a given; there was a chance, though. No one was more delighted with the results than the surgeon; it as as if he had been given the gift of a "normal" looking hand himself. He muttered a quick prayer, crossed himself, and got out of his chair to come kneel at my side as I was sobbing by then. I'm a big cry-er with the charism of tears and someone was always at my level and just waiting with me, whether a doctor, nurse, housekeeping, lab person. As soon as K was stable, within a few days, we moved to our permanent home, 12 hours away by car. Physicians, dentists, etc in Panama give you their home numbers and their cell numbers in case you need to call. Most have those printed on their business cards. And they call YOU as we found out when all was going well and we didn't want to bother Roque, the doctor. It was not an unusual thing to open email & find an email from Roque, not based on some computer program reminding the doc to email on birthdays or anniversaries, but just "because I was thinking about you all and wondering how you were." We are cat people; Roque and his wife have a dog (no children); we often received pictures of Ron and family. We've met his wife and parents. I emailed him to ask for a gyn referral, asking for a woman; he CALLED me back saying he'd made an appointment HIMSELF for me with his cousin. During a follow-up visit, K needed to see a dermatologist; Roque picked up the phone himself and made the appointment. The MOST shocking event was during an appointment K had made, asking for a referral about a possible circulatory problem with his leg. Roque picked up the phone, called a colleague who said he would see K THAT VERY DAY if he liked, but he begged our forgiveness, stating he'd need to see K at the end of his day, told us we were welcome to leave the clinic and go shopping and that he'd call us fifteen minutes before. He recommended places in the area for lunch or coffee and a bookstore. I mean I've waited longer for an actual appointment made months before with a US doc than we waited to see the cardiovascular surgeon that day, who told K, "do NOT, as your leg is now, let ANYONE in this country or any other country, tell you that you need surgery on that leg. And he prescribed a med unknown in the US that actually "tones" veins. He never even charged us for the visit and we had insurance!!! Only later, when retelling this story, did we learn this was one of Panama's most famous cardiovascular surgeons! We learned about his family; he asked about ours. We visited as much as K was examined and treated. AND, GET THIS, MOST Panama docs are US-trained. K's orthopedic surgeon is from Johns Hopkins. I once asked, "then how is it that you and most Panama docs, in my experience, don't have the "MDeity Syndrome" and aren't a-holes!?" He gave me a very good answer that has to do with quality of life that has nothing to do with money and greed. K's dentist, a woman with children, works 6 days a week--from 8 to 2, she works in the local, social security, "poor" hospital; then she comes to her clinic from 3 to 9 or 10. It was not unusual to find her daughter sitting on the floor doing her homework. Her husband and other family members would come by to see her; you got introduced; you learned a new word in Spanish. Over and over I was told, "we are blessed to have the gift of education & training. We WANT to work and to help our fellow Panamanians. We are blessed to have a job." K, in grinding his teeth over the diocesan madness had broken three teeth and a crown; his dentist was out of town; K chose to wait until her return in two weeks. She saw him 3 to 4 times a week over the course of the next two weeks, sometimes at the hospital and sometimes at the clinic. Once she saw him both places. She charged him NOTHING because "I was gone when you needed me & you chose to wait until I returned." Again, we had insurance!

With various poor parishioners and/or very very poor First Peoples, I had the opportunity to visit hospitals and clinics in far-flung, desperately poor areas. There was more waiting because the system is not by appointment & sometimes docs are called to the ER or OR or for a consult. While the out lying poorer and sometimes very poor areas had not "the stuff" with which to treat adequately, there was always the same respect for others, the same kind of sharing of information. Many doctors funded the costs of transportation, consultation, and care for their poorer patients if they needed to be seen by a particular person. It is not unusual for office staff or nurse or doctor to pay for transportation (bus).

We are back in the US now and because of diocesan madness, I realise I will probably never grow nostalgic for Panama....except for medical care. My ID says, "in case of an emergency, call a priest before you call a doctor. If at all possible & I am stable enough, do NOT admit me to a US hospital; put me on a plane to Panama in case or Dr Roque ____ & his phone numbers are included. We all cried when it was time to say goodbye. Other than care by nurse-midwives in this country, I have never been treated so respectfully as a human being. I have also never been so well cared for by medical professionals. Our first encounter back in the US made me want to vomit, scream, and curse. How we treat people here is NOT necessary. We have much to learn from the Panamas of the world.

PinkFuzz · Jul 21, 2008

HANDWRITING!!! :banghead:

...Not to say that I like personality disorders (rude, belittling, etc.). But I can't stand handwriting that's not even ledgible to the person who wrote it. Nothing worse than seeing 3+ nurses spending 15min to figure out an order...such a waste of time & money. Does JCHACO even look at that sort of thing?

Anxious Patient · Jul 21, 2008

thevicarofblue....what a fascinating story. Who would have thought such wonderful medical care in Panama. Yes, we in the U.S. have much to learn from other countries, in many fields.

(gentle hint for future posts - more paragraph breaks will make your stories easier to read.) :typing

Scrubby · Jul 21, 2008

What really irritates me the most about some of the surgeons i work with is that they really seem oblivious to everything around them. Heres a list of thing i've noticed:

Dropping diathermy pencils, suction, surgical instruments off the operating table because they don't put it in a quiver or they don't hand it back to me and it falls off because they are careless. These things need to be replaced to do the surgery and contaminating them will just delay things.

When they are not scrubbed they often just bump into sterile things because they are not watching where they walk etc. This also causes delays.

Spreading all their paperwork over our desk. They actually do this on top of the patients note which causes confusion. It's very inconsiderate.

Hanging around our working space. This really sh*ts me off because they there is limited space and they are just in the way. They don't seem to see (because they are oblivious) that it hinders our work and makes things more difficult.

Actually expecting us to answer their mobile phones in the theatre (even though they are not allowed) while we are busy doing things like patient care, counts, opening up stuff etc.

Getting the newbie student/intern to suture up a patient which takes forever and a day when they know that they have gone over their allocated theatre time and staff are working overtime and want to get the case finished. It's like they don't realise we have lives outside of work, if the experienced surgeon sutures up then we go home much earlier. Yes it's a teaching hospital but teach during the proper operating hours!