what do nurses hate about doctors?

[futureMD]

Not trying to start a flamewar here or anything like that but as an incoming MS I this fall, what are some of the things that doctors do that usually ****** off a nurse? Dr's yelling about missing charts? Yelling for waking them up in the middle of the night? Give me a list so that when I become an MD, I'll be aware of these things and try to avoid them.

[SteveNNP, MSN, NP]

This thread hasn't gone unnoticed @ SDN: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=542853

These cross-board scuffles never seem to end well.

At least the nurses here have offered some very helpful advice for a MS I, instead of the bashing that our friends over at SDN ended up doing....

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

Arrogance.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogance

[mbess02]

No, but I do expect the physician assigned to my patients be ready and available to address with me any needs the patients have. No, I'm not going to call you at 0300 for something that can wait until 0600, but don't get testy with me when I do call at 0300. You might not think it's important, but I've been doing this a lot longer than "you" have, and I can tell the difference between what needs to be dealth with NOW, and what can wait. I refuse to feel sorry for waking a resident up in the middle of the night when needed. I am close friends with many of the residents that rotate through NICU. They understand that I am capable of determining when they need to get out of bed and come see a patient. Until the AMA goes a step further and continues to limit the length of student/resident shifts, no one should "plan" on getting sleep in an ICU setting.

:smilecoffeecup:

I don't yell at my nurses. When I am called to see a patient, I see the patient. Whether I follow the RN's recommendations or not is based on my clinical judgment of the scenario. I expect that you will not scream at me or roll your eyes if I do not change my orders based on your call, and you in return can expect that I will not scream at you nor roll my eyes when you call me to see a patient. It's a two-way street. As many of you have said, my job is to assess the patient when you feel something is wrong; your job is to carry out my orders so long as they are not putting the patient in danger; our job together is to be on the same page and take care of the patient.

[Thunderwolf, MSN, RN]

I second that....arrogance.

To me, it is childish behavior, not professionalism.

[TigerGalLE, BSN, RN]

I hate when doctors don't return our page in a timely manner.

I hate it when I call a doctor repeatedly telling them something is not right with a patient and they never come up to see that patient.

I hate it when I have to call a rapid response on a patient and the doctor still won't come see the patient.

I hate it when a doctor won't admit it when they are wrong. Or won't acknowledge us when we are right.

I hate it when doctors won't talk to family members.

[bethem]

One thing I LOVE about certain doctors is their willingness to teach. I'm not asking you to defend your actions, I'm asking you to teach me something so I can better understand the goal of treatment and provide better care to OUR patient.

[michaelarose]

Personally I get along well with docs and have never been "yelled at" and by yelling I mean shouting loudly. There are times they are unhappy, which is understandable.

My main beef is that I hear over and over about certain docs is the lack of communication. My patients would like to know what is wrong, what the plan of care is, and how long that is going to take. They want to know what you're ordering, why you're ordering it, and when you get the results that you talk to them about it. The trauma docs I work for barely take 20 seconds with their patients expecting that we're going to be their spokespeople and it's irritating.

Often the families would like a few minutes of their time and the docs never ever call them. Would it kill them to call someone? In this day of cell phones they can dial a number while they are walking down the hall and not miss much time.

Bedside manner oh where for art thou?

Otherwise I think the docs are awesome and are always easy to talk to and call, and they respect what we do.

I asked my dad about yelled at by doctors, he's a nurse as well, and he blatantly said that MDs are less likely to lose their mind when dealing with a male nurse. I've noticed there is a lot of truth to this statement.

[RNperdiem, RN]

I hate it when doctors go into a patient room and start doing some painful procedure like debriding a wound without telling me first so I could at least give the patient some extra pain meds.

A better approach would be to tell the nurse in advance what is planned and give orders for some premedication.

I'm glad that the doctor forum has picked up the thread. Understanding other points of view is helpful.

[michaelarose]

One thing I LOVE about certain doctors is their willingness to teach. I'm not asking you to defend your actions, I'm asking you to teach me something so I can better understand the goal of treatment and provide better care to OUR patient.

I love this too! There are doctors that will collect a group of nurses to teach right along with their residents... I think this is very nice and thoughtful.

[michaelarose]

Actually, when physicians are using call rooms at night, it's not because they are sleeping on the "night shift." When a physician takes call, they are generally in the hospital for 30-36 hours at a stretch. It's not like we're working 12's overnight, and sleeping through them. We're trying to get a tiny bit of rest so that we can keep going through our 30 hour shift without vomiting. Physicians who work night float - ie, who DO have night shifts and are at home during the day - don't get call rooms, and don't sleep during the night.

Nurses should recognize that most physicians are not shift workers the way RN's are. Would you want a doctor taking care of your family member to stay up all night in the middle of a 30-hour shift just because you're awake, too? Or would you want him/her to get the sleep he/she could before rounding on your mother/operating on your father/making critical care decisions on your child the next day?

I feel this is very dangerous, and I would also like to add that I've had residents admit that if OSHA and Joint Commission had correct records on how many hours residents actually work.... oh wee. I don't know how true this is, but it makes me wonder when several people have commented on it.

[michaelarose]

I know this might sound crazy, but I think a lot of a doctor's attitude hinges on just what kind of doctor; ie a cardiologist, or brain surgeon, or vascular surgeon-I don't know about anybody else, but in my neck of the woods, these guys can be bad news and quite vicious. I remember working in one hospital where a nurse wanted to sue a vascular surgeon that decided it would be a good idea to put his hands on her during a surgery when she couldn't get a hold of a certain piece of equipment.

Now I know this is a very extreme example, but I look at the job boards, certain areas have a very hard time hiring and keeping nurse due to very, er interesting MDs. Anyone else experience this?

[NoviceToExpert]

I don't yell at my nurses. When I am called to see a patient, I see the patient. Whether I follow the RN's recommendations or not is based on my clinical judgment of the scenario. I expect that you will not scream at me or roll your eyes if I do not change my orders based on your call, and you in return can expect that I will not scream at you nor roll my eyes when you call me to see a patient. It's a two-way street. As many of you have said, my job is to assess the patient when you feel something is wrong; your job is to carry out my orders so long as they are not putting the patient in danger; our job together is to be on the same page and take care of the patient.

Fair enough... but your tone to begin with is "I don't yell at my nurses"... except I am the patient's nurse... not the doctor's nurse... It is inappropriate for the doctor to call the nurse "my nurse"... When I am working with our patient I don't page "my respiratory therapist" or "my doctor" or "my physical therapist"... I page the respiratory therapist or the doctor or the physical therapist...

I frequently hear this expression and it is condescending in itself...