Nurses go for trial

Grace Oz · Dec 12, 2007

Holy moley! MANSLAUGHTER???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Negligence maybe, but MANSLAUGHTER???!!!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter

*Phew* I need to know more before forming any opinion. I'd need to HAVE BEEN THERE!

Seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears.

Either way, something was terribly wrong that night!

Sad, very sad.

gwenith, BSN, RN · Dec 13, 2007

I agree Grace - which is why I am keeping a close eye on this as it develops. There should be more reports and hopefully the QNU will be defending them (please everyone tell me you have professional Liability Insurance).

But it is scary - they were originally charged also with "failure to provide the neccessities" which is still a valid charge under QLD law but this was dropped and only the manslaughter charge is going through.

This case highlights the fact you cannot and should not rely on vicarious liability to cover you from legal ramifications of practice.

Sad case - and one with so, so many questions.

nyapa, RN · Dec 14, 2007

Obviously we have not been told everything...only the sensationalist information. My question would be, what is the staff to patient ratio? If it is a high ratio then the hospital also should take some responsibilty. But I can't see that happening can you?

joannep · Dec 14, 2007

Thank you for bring this case to our attention.

You are right, it is of interest to all nurses. I can only imagine the stress that these two nurses and their families are under! Professional Liability Insurance and union membership is vital.

Grace Oz · Dec 15, 2007

I never, not even ONCE, practised without being a member of the ANF or having insurance.

Still, I'd like to know the full guts of this sad situation before pointing the finger at anyone.

Clearly something went horribly wrong!

ANnot4me · Dec 15, 2007

I work in NZ, but this case has caught my eye. Laws are different here, but it could happen. Unfortunately, it is true that nurses are often caught up in no win situations. Here it is very difficult to manage situations where I feel unsafe because it is just not the culture to say no. I worked in the ED the other night (not my usual area, but I have done it alot). I worked in an area, however, that I do not normally work. It is meant to be ambulatory type patients, but that does not always happen. When it gets busy, a bed is a bed. I had 6 patients in a 6 bedded room and only 1 was of the ambulatory variety and the rest acute. One was new and a possible CVA. I was quite busy and every patient was in need of something to be done and I was comfortable with what I had, but just trying to get it sorted. then the charge told me I was getting another patient in a conference room. She was an unrestrained driver in a MVA and 9-weeks preg. I just did not feel that I could carry on safely because I do not practice in ED on a regular basis (very seldom actually) and told her I could not deal with another patient (especially of the trauma variety; albeit one who was deemed stable). While we were busy, there were 2 nurses floating.

The charge told me that my asssignment included a possible 8 patients. I told her that I was not ED staff, that I had been pulled there and was happy to do what I could, but my concern was patient safety, not numbers, and that I also did not care to risk my reg. I also added that I had worked ED in 3 countries and had never been assigned to care for 8 patients in an acute area and was not going to make it a first that night. She said it was busy and she needed me to be able to be able to take 8 ptaients if necessary. She spoke to another nurse who was a regular in the dept, and we traded rooms. I was assigned to a 6-bedded room.

As it turned out, it was just a short burst of madness, but it could have gone really wrong. I know the dept well enough to know that if we received one resus patient, we lose the charge, the resus nurse and possible the float and the reg. Two resus patients and all you know what breaks loose as the resus area is separate from the main dept area. It is hard to say no and I am known as a drama queen, but when I start to feel that I can't think straight, it is time to take a breath and think more carefully and not add fuel to the fire.

Our patient loads are getting heavier, it is baby doctor season and the usual summer slow-down is not happening. The focus is often on what is culturally acceptable on not on safety and asking for help where necessary. I have myself and my partner living on my income my registration is my livelihood. Too many nurse are willing to compromise that because they believe "It" won't happen to them. "It" can happen to anyone.

I don't know what happened in this hospital, but I know that I have seen plenty of near misses. It usually begins with "We are really short staffed, I couldn't give you a nurse, but you'll be ok."

I went to a hospital once as an agency nurse. I had just over 2 years experience. I was sent to an oncology ward I had never worked on in a hospital I had only been to a few times. there were only 2 nurses and a float assistant. the other nurse had less than a year experience. We were under the staffing guidelines, neither of us were certified in chemotherapy and there was no ward clerk. I can not recall how many patients we had, but it was too many. I immediately told the duty manager I was uncomfortable with the situation. She said what many of them always say and implied I was incompetent. I made a big mistake and stayed. It quickly became a nightmare. One of the patients was confused, combatative and wandering the unit and dragging his foley behind him. So many things need to be done that I was spinning and it just got worse. I called the DM and said we needed help now; she basically told me to go to... It got so scarey (as I found mistake after mistake and a paitent with a very low Hb who had not been transfused as ordered and blah blah).

Never again. There is always another job as long as I have a registration.

Scrubby · Dec 16, 2007

Chigap-If this ward was working under their staffing requirement did you write an incident report? I certainly would be. I'd also be contacting the ANF about it as well.

talaxandra · Dec 18, 2007

No tthe point, I know, but:

Mr Feeney said Ms Valentine, an enrolled nurse under the control of registered nurse Mr Gibbons, had observed Mr Hammett's rapid decline.

I think all nurses should be concerned about this. According to Nursing Review (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:WdtBuiNmM30J:www.deakin.edu.au/hmnbs/nursing/awards/publications/02-03-nurse0107-indd.pdf+hammet+valentine+gibbons&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=20&gl=au), it was the Div 1's first night shift.

From what one of the defence lawyers said, it sounds like there wasn't an inquest first, which is odd. According to The Australian

A coronial inquest will be held, after the criminal case is finalised, and examine the Pacific Private Hospital's staffing levels, procedures and practices. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,15934404-23289,00.html

The other defence lawyer said the charges were so excessive because they followed the aftermath of the Jayant Patel scandal, which is interesting. Certainly the fact that

tearful Gibbons and Valentine faced Southport Magistrate's Court in handcuffs yesterday charged with manslaughter and failing to provide the necessities of life. They were ordered to surrender their passports and granted bail to re-appear for mention on September 20. [emphasis added] www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,15933064-3102,00.html

supports that claim, as does the article from The Australian, which explicitly links the cases.

gwenith, BSN, RN · Dec 18, 2007

There could be a link between Patel and this case in that they want to appear "tough" on on health related issues but it could also just be a case of a magistrate not willing to stop a case going to trial even if it does not have enough evidence- I would dearly love to know more but there is very little data around about this case.

talaxandra · Dec 21, 2007

In The Australian articles I mentioned above, the following appears:

A coronial inquest will be held, after the criminal case is finalised, and examine the Pacific Private Hospital's staffing levels, procedures and practices. The case comes as police and medical experts continue to investigate Indian-trained American surgeon Jayant Patel, who has been linked with at least eight deaths in his two years at Bundaberg Base Hospital.

Which is why I think the link's pretty explicit. I hope I'm wrong, and it'll be judged on its own merits...

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of coverage down here - anything more up north?

bassandtea · Dec 22, 2007

I haven't seen much on this at all, but it's very scary for somebody who is just starting to work towards becoming a nurse.