Interesting poll, thanks for posting. It surprises me that the results are even close, it sure seems like the lions share of the post that I've been reading regarding this issue have been in favor of the current reform. Personally I'm against it and believe that we would have been better off just riding out the storm or creating some kind of a single payer.
We could afford it before the previous president went shopping in China and maxed out the credit cards.
Too many people aren't getting the care they deserve, and it is a SIMPLE and BASIC right~to be able to have care. No one should go bankrupt because they are sick, no one should die if they have a curable disease.
I am completely for healthcare reform, we may have to tweak it a little as we go, but it is an important step and a much needed one. The insurance companies are out of control and they need to be put in check.
I can't wait to have insurance, I haven't had it since I was a child living with my mom, I am 27 years old (thank goodness I take care of myself) and I have yet to have insurance.
Sure it's expensive, but we spent billions in iraq and afghanistan, taking care of other people, why can't we spend what we need to take care of our own. How can we do nothing, the current sysytem was unsustainable. This is a start, it's not perfect but it's way better than what we had. At least if you get cancer, no one will deny you coverage because you had pimples in 8th grade.
I really wonder how many people who are against the health care bill have insurance already. I'd bet that the majority of them do. I wonder how many of them know what it's like to be unable to afford health care, and get denied Medicaid because they "make too much" but not enough to afford a private plan. I wonder how many of them have chronic medical conditions that require daily medications and frequent specialist visits. I wonder how many of them have lost a loved one because they couldn't afford proper care, or even preventative care and got ill as a result.
I got a letter in the mail last week that denied me Medicaid. I don't have a job and there is no way I could afford to pay for a health insurance plan. I am one of those people who have chronic medical conditions that need constant care. Why was I denied if I am so poor, you ask? Because I have over $513 in my bank account, and I don't have any children. I just spoke to my case worker yesterday, and she told me this, so I'm not pulling this out of my rear.
I have more than $513 because I have tuition refund money in there, which I use for school supplies, gas, car repairs, etc - anything and everything that directly affects me getting to and from school, and being successful in it. I told her that it's tuition money, only used for school and she said, "it doesn't matter, the state still counts that as income." She suggested that I take out as much financial aid as I could in order to cover my health care. Are you serious? What a terrible and irresponsible answer to my problems. Thankfully I qualified for an adult benefit program which covers my meds and doctor visits (but no surgeries or extended hospital stays. What?).
This is a government program and according to some, it doesn't work. And they're right - it's messed up. But the answer to why it is so messed is this: the only people who are on these programs are poor, and nobody gives a damn about the poor. That's obvious, given a lot of the responses here. They are the dregs of society that get what they deserve because they don't work hard enough, make poor life decisions, and pump out a ton of kids so they can get welfare and food stamps, right? There are so many misconceptions and downright lies about the poor that not enough focus goes into caring for them. But now that so many people have lost their jobs and are becoming poor - oh! NOW people care. Thank God everyone else is poor because now those who have been poor for far longer are finally going to get some care.
Another interesting point is the frequent comparison of our "care" and Canada's. For every person that says Canada's system sucks, there's a dozen more who say that it works perfectly, so that's a moot point. There are always going to be people who like and dislike something. What we should look at is how effective these other programs are based on statistics and research, not empirical evidence.
As directed by the mods, I do not wish to enter a debate with anyone here. I have read each and every response, and liked some, disliked others. I have read everyone's posts with an open mind, blocking all terms of "Republican" and "Democrat" from my thoughts. I think everyone, from both sides, have brought up a lot of good points and I'm glad that we were able to have a civilized discussion (most of the time! :rotfl:) We'll just have to wait and see what happens, do what we can to fix what we dislike, and hope for the best! My .
Here are some things I have learned in healthcare. Medicare/VA and Medicaid have much waste and theft. The government has not been a good steward of the peoples money. Now, its good to see so many that do not have healthcare will have it, but who is going to pay for it. I understand after the pot of money that will be given to your state is used up, your state will have to pick up the tab. And how are these states who can't keep a budget now going to do that? I say, get rid of medicare and medicaid as we know it, have all of those under a managed hmo, but provide rules on how much insurance could increase. As for a insurance company taking a person with complicated health problems, thats another area in which its up in the air. Would you want to cover someone who costs hundreds of thousands a year to maintain? I think obama wanted this passed for his own good. There are just too many un answered questions.
I really wonder how many people who are against the health care bill have insurance already. I'd bet that the majority of them do. I wonder how many of them know what it's like to be unable to afford health care, and get denied Medicaid because they "make too much" but not enough to afford a private plan. I wonder how many of them have chronic medical conditions that require daily medications and frequent specialist visits. I wonder how many of them have lost a loved one because they couldn't afford proper care, or even preventative care and got ill as a result.
Im sorry about your situation and it is sad in some cases. But as a whole, I think, most people say health care is too expensive yet spend astronomical amounts of money on other comforts. Blue cross website offers basic health care plans at around 100 bucks a month. Now, that could be a lot of money for some people. But the people complaining about that 100 bucks are usually walking around in 100 pair of shoes, with 70 jeans and 60 dollar shirts, and dont forget that 300 dollar iphone with 100 dollar a month cell phone plan. So health care, for the most part, is about priorities. There are far far too many people out there with their a hand stuck out (while wearing a 500 dollar watch) wanting free health care. And those people make it look bad for those that truly cannot afford it. But the majority the cost discussion can be summed up by looking at a persons priorities. And they are severely skewed.
Specializes in psychiatry, recovery room, outpatient.
Originally Posted by ToxicShock
I really wonder how many people who are against the health care bill have insurance already. I'd bet that the majority of them do. I wonder how many of them know what it's like to be unable to afford health care, and get denied Medicaid because they "make too much" but not enough to afford a private plan. I wonder how many of them have chronic medical conditions that require daily medications and frequent specialist visits. I wonder how many of them have lost a loved one because they couldn't afford proper care, or even preventative care and got ill as a result.
Ditto.
When we first moved in USA and applied for Medical for out baby daughter it was denied, eventhough only my husband was employed at the time and his income was barely above the "required". The Denial came a week after we had to rash to to ER(2 days of fever,she is 5 month,breastfed, and started throwing up at mignight) stating that temporary coverage was ended ONE day before ER trip. Wha? And then, in a few days, we get 6,000$ bill from the hospital ,which we couldn't pay, cause,well, I was a stayhome mom and my hubby is not an engeneer.:) So yeah, the hospital won't deny you service but u better believe it they'll bill you. Can't afford to pay,well=goodbay credit history,which is what we have right now. Bad credit. In US u r doomed basically. I am Russian-Canadian trained nurse so have experienced and can compare health care in 3 contries (counting US o/c).
Responding to poster who was saying that most people who say health care is expensive spend money on iphone crap etc. Well, here is one that don't. Mother of 2. Both, me and my hubby, working full time jobs like any dutifull citizens.
Im sorry about your situation and it is sad in some cases. But as a whole, I think, most people say health care is too expensive yet spend astronomical amounts of money on other comforts. Blue cross website offers basic health care plans at around 100 bucks a month.
Ahh, yes, but the key question is who qualifies for those $100/month basic plans??? I am in my early 50s with one minor "pre-existing" condition that is stable on one inexpensive, generic medication, in excellent health otherwise, and with a history of v. limited use of healthcare services. When my COBRA coverage from my previous job ran out over a year ago, I went shopping for an individual policy (mostly to keep my mother off my back -- she wouldn't shut up about it ... ) -- the best offers I got from Blue Cross in my state and the other "legitimate," well-known insurance companies were ~$500/month for a bare-bones policy with v. limited coverage and a $5000 annual deductible. That's $11,000 out of pocket per year before they pay a penny for anything!
I ended up going with a v. sketchy company (any consumer help/information website has lots of complaints about them ) that offered me a policy for a little over $200/month for a bare-bones policy with v. limited coverage and a $2500 annual deductible -- with the condition that I agreed to a separate, special deductible that applied specifically to my pre-existing condition (or anything remotely connected to it). The special deductible for the one condition? Are you sitting down? $14,000 (per year, not lifetime). I figure I'm throwing away the $200+ a month on the off chance that if I'm banged up in a serious automobile accident, or something similar, I might actually be covered for that (that is, if they can't find some way to claim that it's related to my pre-existing condition ). Despite the fact that they didn't pay out a single cent for me during the first year I carried the policy and the current general inflation rate is ~2%, they raised my premiums ~15% at the end of the first year of coverage.
Most people don't have any idea how bad things are in healthcare coverage until they find themselves outside the world of employer-provided insurance. I'm no fan of the plan that did get passed -- it doesn't go nearly far enough to suit me (I've been a single-payer advocate for many years) -- but at least it's something, finally.
I vote YES! 100% YES! If people say we can't afford it, I say let's stop spending all this money on war. We've spent almost one trillion dollars already.
I voted unsure because I have mixed emotions about things.
#1: I have always been covered by insurance, and have always been able to go to the doctor without problem. Thank goodness I am healthy so far, so I haven't experienced being denied coverage for anything. So, you may say this is all easy for me to say because I have healthcare, and you may be partially right. But, I have worked hard to get where I am, put myself through school, my husband served 20 years in the military, so we could have good health insurance. However, my mother-in-law is disabled, and is too young for Medicare. She has various illnesses, but has no health insurance at the moment. So, I do feel compassion for those in her situation.
#2: There are a zillion heart-wrenching stories about single moms who get sick and die leaving their kids orphaned because they didn't have insurance, and these stories do touch my heart -- I'm not heartless.
#3: I really haven't educated myself on this topic adequately.
#4: I just don't subscribe to "socialist" ideals, that regardless of your contribution to society, you deserve the same as everyone else. We (taxpayers) already pay for the care of those with AIDS and/or kidney disease. It really bothers me that people who are alcoholics, drug users, promiscuous, smokers, etc. are going to get the same level of care as myself and millions of other who take care of themselves, and these people will suck up all the resources, but yet not contribute anything to society. What about illegal residents? What about prisoners? Will they get free healthcare too?
#5: Limited healthcare reimbursements from Medicare and insurance companies have already placed a financial burden on the healthcare industry, and this legislation will probably just make matters worse. There is already a shortage of physicians, and fewer and fewer people are pursuing healthcare because of these restrictions. My concern is that there will not be enough providers to serve the huge influx of newly insured people. Plus, what incentive will there be for healthcare innovations/research?
#6: How are we going to afford it all? Increased taxes? My family lives paycheck to paycheck, yet we still had to pay $1600 extra in taxes this year. So, are you saying I'm going to have to pay even more taxes to insure the drug dealer on the other side of town who probably makes more than I do?
#7: How much of my newly-increased tax dollars will actually go toward healthcare, and how much of it will go toward overhead and administrative costs of running a national healthcare insurance program?
#8: I hope that "preventive" healthcare will play a big part in this reform because that is the only way we will be able to minimize costs down the road.
Luckily I have always had insurance and when I was not insured during my college years I recieved care at a pay as you can hospital clinic and recieved the best care. My experience here as in Puerto Rico has always been that I have never been turned away. Then I agree something needed to be done but this didn't have bipartisan support and that is not what America is about.
The reason that the reform of health care bill was passed as it did, is because the "good ol' boy" Republican network was glued together (like scum in blood vessels), against it, simply because they didn't introduce it, wanted to delay it because of their allegiance to big business (health insurance companies) due to dependence on big campaign contributions from big corporations; and poor sports person attitudes because they lost the presidential election. Most of all the fact that it was bulky was more touted than the advisability of reading it. They reminded me of nursing students (or any other school's students) looking at all the materials that had to be read and digested, so our representatives' immediate, knee jerk reactions were, "I can't".
Well, President Obama won on a "Yes we can" platform that contains all those things that are very wrong with this country - exclusionary treatment of those with financial struggles, while big business made a mockery of tax laws, insurance for better health through educational prevention programs, and allowed costs to go through every roof!! Had we continued in that direction, who knows how much deeper we'd have landed, in the existing financial hole, while foreign interests (those countries receiving "outsourced" labor driven funds) celebrated. It was as if China wasn't becoming more wealthy through that practice!!
The only reason that critically ill patients haven't been turned away from American hospitals, is the fear of losing costly litigation, for good cause. Certainly doctors have refused to see many ill patients all the time before that, according to how they feel about the specific insurance coverage they have. As soon as the health care Act passed, most doctors in Los Angeles declared that they would no longer treat Medi-cal patients (not only new ones, mind you!). Backlash seems to be more a fact of life every day and for every legal encumberance (vis a vis AZ's immigration law).
Now if doctors took Medi-cal patients before, why didn't they pro actively work then, to have the compensation tincreased to what they think is more deserved/appropriate? They didn't before and they're doing nothing now, other than standing up and being counted as the most avaricious money grubbing, me first, patients' needs attended after I get the luxuries to which I've become accustomed and think I'm worth folks they are. Who said physicians are entitled to earn millions yearly, and avoid donating any of their services to the less advantaged people they swore to serve?
When I went to the doctor who I usually see for GI problems, and told his staff that I now have medi-cal (CA's medicaid), I was told their office doesn't accept that and was ushered into their financial/collection person's office. Luckily she was a very nice woman who agreed with me, that they should take medi-cal, and said she would do all she could to have my coverage accepted, if the doctor permitted that.
That doctor had been my neighbor in my more moneyed time, when we were in the same financially well endowed group. Since then, my health has deteriorated, I haven't been able to keep jobs because insurance companies of my employers charged punitive premiums for their employees whjo were over 55 years of age; and of course I lost my insurance coverage and had to raid my savings to pay for life sustaining medications to the tune of $1500./month. Doctors seem to leave out the financial details of medications patients need! That ex-neighbor saw me for 2 minutes or less, said he'd give me a free CBC, and that I couldn't have surgery (a new banding technique to place stomachs back in the abdominal cavity of patients whose lungs and heart share thoracic space with that organ, due to hiatal hernias.
When I investigated why the costs of my medicine had increased so much, month to month and then week to week, a pharmacist then told me, due to the manufacturer's worth on the stock market!! The cost always increases, never decreases in their cost, daily. I found that pharmaceutical companies claims that they paid for research leading to their production of new products was bogus, and that the companies had been funded by government grants, so they were actually "double dipping", essentially. Generic compounds cost to patients is as high or even higher than the brand meds!!! Hospitals have pared down their formularies so that during my admissions, I couldn't get my regular ones, and had to bring mine with me. I told the admitting nurses of that, and said that I would be taking them, as the more available types they had, weren't effective when I tried them before. Proton pump inhibitors that work best, have now become OTC, at lower doses than I'm prescribed. The dosage I need costs more than $10/dose (last time I checked). Now that I'm on medi-cal, who knows if the only dosage that prevents my frequent hemorrhaging, may be denied me. Then the cost of treating resultant hemorrhaging will be high, along with increased stress!!
You wouldn't believe what I'd had to go through, to get doctors to appeal the insurance companies' refusals I'd had in the past, to allow me to take products in the dosage that was prescribed. I've had to change physicians more than once because their clerical staff didn't want to deal with the paperwork necessary to get what their employer prescribed!! I know good help is hard to get, but that's ridiculous!! I know that the reformed health care will lower meds' costs, as double dipping will be stopped, and make the ones I need available when prescribed.
The problem with being the "wealthiest country in the modern world", is that unscrupulous methods created by politicians with dependence on campaign contributions made by the wealthy corporations and special interest comapnies; and laws that would provide public funds through tax collection of those resultant high incomes, have contained loopholes that prevent fair collection, so that big companies gain, while those with smaller earnings pay for all the public projects. It's well known that any officer in the military retires with plenty of government contracted work that keeps them makiing more money, as they charge more than others who bid for those contracts, ask. It truly is a vicious financial circle, depriving the needy and rewarding those already in high positions!!
Because of all that, bipartisan involvement in many reforms that will be proposed by this administration, especially the financial ones, will bog down in rhetoric and opposition. Bipartisan support is utopial, and won't be attained until those unfortunate enough to need reform, will always be pushing the "wheel" of progress, while it is more strongly pushed against them by monied Republicans in lock step with well established corporations that benefit from the way is "has always been". (I couldn't get the smilie, just the expression it means, without "explorer", which I somehow can't get without paying $20 more for it - now isn't that ironic?)
The energy I've expended previously, to attain needed things, like health through having my meds, drains that resource, preventing as much energy that is needed to keep pushing the aforementioned figurative "wheel". It has also caused pessimism. (another expression in words instead of a smilie).
.
) -- the 
) that offered me a policy for a little over $200/month for a bare-bones policy with v. limited coverage and a $2500 annual deductible -- with the condition that I agreed to a separate, special deductible that applied specifically to my pre-existing condition (or anything remotely connected to it). The special deductible for the one condition? Are you sitting down? $14,000 (per year, not lifetime). I figure I'm throwing away the $200+ a month on the off chance that if I'm banged up in a serious automobile accident, or something similar, I might actually be covered for that (that is, if they can't find some way to claim that it's related to my pre-existing condition 
). Despite the fact that they didn't pay out a single cent for me during the first year I carried the policy and the current general inflation rate is ~2%, they raised my premiums ~15% at the end of the first year of coverage.
stephenfnielsen
186 Posts
Interesting poll, thanks for posting. It surprises me that the results are even close, it sure seems like the lions share of the post that I've been reading regarding this issue have been in favor of the current reform. Personally I'm against it and believe that we would have been better off just riding out the storm or creating some kind of a single payer.