Please take a second to vote on the poll, then leave your comments. It will be interesting to see what the allnurses.com membership thinks.
Please do not turn this thread into a Political discussion, argument or debate. It is just intended to poll our nursing audience on the question.
Feel free to leave civil comments and your opinion whether you agree or disagree, but please no arguing and fueding :)
If you want to discuss politics, please visit our US Politics forum over at allnurses Central where members can discuss non-nursing discussions
Disclaimer: This is by no means a scientific poll Just for entertainment purpose.
Thanks and have a great day!
This was the first post - so I'm not sure why anyone is surprised about Joe's redirection.
I also mentioned though that it was going to be hard to keep it simply "entertainment" and a poll.
Passionate subjects are difficult to rein in - but there are many threads about this issue over on allnurses central.
And the poll shows a fairly even split - so I don't think one side or the other dominates here. Which is interesting to me as I've always seen AN as a more liberal website. So, that is a useful and entertaining part of this poll.
this was the first post - so i'm not sure why anyone is surprised about joe's redirection. i'm not surprised, and i wanted to state my need for further direction, and disagreement with the stand taken. the title of this thread begs political discussion, so possibly a more specific title, like "how are you seeing the future of nursing and health care, since reform of health care passed"?. anything else is exactly the same as the poll, yay, or nay......
i also mentioned though that it was going to be hard to keep it simply "entertainment" and a poll. many responses on threads are entertaining, some are angry or petulant, others instructional. others, such as "what have other nurses done that freaked you out", are quite entertaining.
passionate subjects are difficult to rein in - but there are many threads about this issue over on allnurses central.
and the poll shows a fairly even split - so i don't think one side or the other dominates here. which is interesting to me as i've always seen an as a more liberal website. so, that is a useful and entertaining part of this poll.
thanks brian! and joe. my thanks to you too, as i feel comfortable in being able to express disagreement here.
steph
remember the old song (well, probably not, given the average age of participants herein):
"the more we get together, together, together, the happier we'll be
for your friends are my friends,
and my friends are your friends,
the more we get together, the happier we'll be."
i think that old ditty expresses the intent of allnurses.com very well.
Heck No. It does nothing to address tort reform or to control costs. Now we'll just have 30 million or more folks who have no idea how their care gets paid for. People will have NO incentive to take better care of themselves, other than care will be RATIONED, so you'd better hope you don't get sick.
I feel Americans can do better than just tax the rich and give to the poor. And we'll be giving to the poor forever, and to more and more of the poor as our borders and all the rules of who gets what care in this country get more and more lax. Socialism is all that is is -- and that hasn't worked anywhere in this world without resulting in lower quality care and innovations.
I believe we can do better. Americans are going to vote it all out in November 2010 -- you can be sure of it.
Very sad to read the vitriol. This wasn't supposed to be a political debate, but obviously the comments reflect a lot of anger, fear, and disrespect. I thought we as nurses could rise above that.
We are not being disrespectful by expressing our opinions (sometimes quite passionately) on a forum. It is also not anger and fear. It is actually concern for our country, for its citizens, and for the children who will inherit it from all of us. For example, the TEA partyers (Taxed Enough Already, I believe is what it stands for). People in power have been intimating, if not actually stating, that they are like homegrown terrorists. What happened to discourse in this country? Our Founding Fathers put the right to disagree with the Government and its leaders right there in the Constitution, along with Free Speech. Just something to think about about...
heck no. it does nothing to address tort reform or to control costs.why should it? tort reform protects doctors from punitive insurance company premiums, due to high awards given plaintiffs who win malpractie lawsuits. reform of health care is the appropriate subject of health care reform!
now we'll just have 30 million or more folks who have no idea how their care gets paid for. people will have no incentive to take better care of themselves, other than care will be rationed, so you'd better hope you don't get sick. you need to read the reform act, which emphacises disease prevention through teaching those at risk for diseases that cost them pain, anguish, and their earnings. i'm a public health nurse with decades of patient education experience. once learning occurs, through appropriate communication methods and content, patients' acceptance of dire results from denial, means they become more compliant.
you are dead wrong about rationing of care. there is nothing in the act (which i have read) that suggests that! being from canada, with relatives there who are consumers of health care and providers of it, i know that rationing of health care doesn't occur there (except in the decor of hospitals and doctors' offices) and i know of none in other countries with universal care. that which occurs and has occurred for many years in this country already, destroys hope of recovery from illness for those who have medicare and are not insured. i have experienced shody, negligent care due to avaricious insurance company restrictions on medications i've been allowed by them, that were ineffective and not those recommended/ordered by my doctor. my condition worsened, causing grave illness and complications. even hospitals say my meds aren't in their formulary due to their cost, when i've been an inpatient.
i feel americans can do better than just tax the rich and give to the poor. when you read the act online, you'll hopefully perceive all the programs offered, and measures that will curb insurance and pharmaceutical companies' gouging prices, lowering costs of care and provide appropriate, effective care. and we'll be giving to the poor forever, and to more and more of the poor as our borders and all the rules of who gets what care in this country get more and more lax. the reform of health care act provides increased monitoring of services and pricing, along with more reliable treatment. that will bring health to individuals formerly deprived of it for long periods of time, and put them back in the work force. socialism is all that is -- and that hasn't worked anywhere in this world, without resulting in lower quality care and innovations. the only place that socialism in its purest form works well, is in israel where those who choose it, can live in kibbutsim wherein assets are comingled and shared. russia never practised true socialism, and forced all their people into a system that served none except party leaders. they all have universal health care in israel, where visitors and resident non israelis are all covered for it equally. some of the best current medical research that has worldwide acknowledgment, occurs there.
i believe we can do better. americans are going to vote it all out in november 2010 -- you can be sure of it.
given the type of politicians that have been elected here, due to their misrepresentation of their goals in the past and present, who stage delays, judge laws on the basis of religious beliefs, prejudice and are self serving, it is no wonder that the peoples' anger has risen to the point that many seem to believe any anti-government doctrine.
it is president obama's wish to inform the people better regarding the actions taken in the short period of time he has been in office, so they aren't victims of oppositional lies spread by those who won't benefit as they did before. look at how banks' policies and stock market manipulation was allowed, and what damage has done by them, which will no longer be possible on the scale that has been allowed in previous administrations!
that's why they and their lobbyists are so outspoken, spreading their own discontent and making people who don't go to the source for their information, agree.
in order to have the best, we must do our best to find out all we can about those running for office, and be better informed voters who actualkly do
vote. to vote only so that things we've been told will occur, don't happen with no other input, is most unwise. getting better benefits from those we elect depends on us doing our part to investigate thoroughly those who would have us vote for them. in ca we are bombarded by people on tv who strive to buy the positions for which they campaign. i mute them, and will see how their accomplishments so far agree with their promises, realistically.
it is president obama's wish to inform the people better regarding the actions taken in the short period of time he has been in office, so they aren't victims of oppositional lies spread by those who won't benefit as they did before. look at how banks' policies and stock market manipulation was allowed, and what damage has done by them, which will no longer be possible on the scale that has been allowed in previous administrations!
is it now? just how he promised to post all bills on his website prior to voting yet didnt with the health care bill? or informing us that he didnt care what the majority wanted when rocketing it through the house? and he has done nothing to stop the banks or wall streets behavior...he bailed them out. and wrote billions of dollars of earmarks to fellow dems for their votes. so to say its not possible on the scale its been allowed is somewhat right but only because the economy is so bad, it cant get much worse. but the shady tactics arent gone, nor will they be. they were paid handsomely by taxpayers forced to fork over money so they can continue their ways.
the following should be a helpful site that will respond to your concerns. however, i'd suggest that you drop the negatrivity respounding in your posts.
by secretary kathleen sebelius, department of health & human services
do you have questions about what the new health insurance reform law means for you? please join me for a live q&a with nancy-ann deparle, director of the white house office of health reform. this is the third in our ongoing series of webchats where hhs officials and experts answer your questions about the affordable care act.
I voted yes, because it's about time something was done. I'm not entirely happy with the bill because IMO it doesn't go nearly far enough, and is actually a watered-down shell of what it was supposed to have been or what it could be. I believe that this is ultimately the plan of the big for-profit insurance companies and their political backers. They knew they would not be able to stop it, so the next best thing is to try and cripple it, take the meat out of it, and hope that it fails, so they can say "See, it didn't work". Everyone should have an option to buy into a government national one-payer plan if they wish to. If they have their own private policy and are happy with that, they can keep that. Everyone, even the poorest among us, would be covered by default if they could not afford their own insurance. I would gladly pay my taxes for something like this and forget about a lot of the rot that government spends on other things that don't really benefit citizens.
as a nurse, it's not the best thing for me, i see more work with pay not keeping up with the work.
but for the country as a whole and caring for people (that's what nurses are supposed to really "care" about), i think it's a good thing.
i voted yes on the poll, because there are bigger things than me.
I haven't seen the same prospect for nurses. Please explain how and where you saw that we'll be working harder without our pay keeping pace with that. There has been a lot of misinformation out there.......
and joe. my thanks to you too, as i feel comfortable in being able to express disagreement here.
Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN
11,305 Posts
This was the first post - so I'm not sure why anyone is surprised about Joe's redirection.
I also mentioned though that it was going to be hard to keep it simply "entertainment" and a poll.
Passionate subjects are difficult to rein in - but there are many threads about this issue over on allnurses central.
And the poll shows a fairly even split - so I don't think one side or the other dominates here. Which is interesting to me as I've always seen AN as a more liberal website. So, that is a useful and entertaining part of this poll.
Thanks Brian!
And Joe.
steph