Nurses are not Doctors

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All this talk of professionalism and being respected by doctors makes me sick.

I am a professional. I am a nurse. My job is to diagnose and treat human responses to illness (care for the sick). I also educate patients, assess their physical condition, and rehabilitate them. Society considers an RN a professional position, so I am a professional. I am not a doctor, I don't work for a doctor; I am not a doctor's assistant. I work for my hospital and my nurse manager.

A doctor is an academically prepared individual who diagnoses and treats medical problems in human beings. We use doctors in caring for patients who have medical problems. We need their medical orders (orders for the patient--not orders to us as in "ordering" us to do something), because we can't legally administer medical interventions without them, why? because we are nurses not doctors!

I'm in the profession of caring for people, especially sick people, and in my case especially sick people with cardiac conditions. So, naturally I have problems with the nurse practioner being considered an "advance practice nurse." In reality they are a doctor's assistant. Our professionalism does not come by being more like a doctor but by being more of a nurse.

I respect doctors, but then I respect patients as well, and I respect strangers on the street. Doctors are not nurses, and I feel they are missing out on the greatest spiritual vocation available. If they think they are above me, professionally, then they are as misguided as the nurse who thinks he's not a professional if he can't write a prescription for amoxacillin.

OK, I'm done:)

originally posted by originalwmn

plato,

you seem to be conveniently forgetting that luke, a physician, wrote one of the gospels and there are metaphors in the bible where christ calls himself a "physician" and sinners the "sick". it is therefore quite a stretch to say that jesus endorses our profession as better/above another.

jesus was using a metaphor and no one actually knows who wrote any of the gospels. they are simply ascribed to people, and even at that, they have no idea what "luke" is being refered to. all anyone can do is guess. but that's beside the point.

i think that as christians how we live our lives as a whole is much more important than chosen profession/vocation.

i agree.

as nurses we are fortunate that our chosen profession has a "built in" service component which probably attracted many of us to nursing (whether we be christian, religious, moral/humanistic, etc). however, i have known many accountants, lawyers, postal workers, plumbers etc. who give of their time and money to help others and have reached just as many people if not more than i have in my time spent in the hospital.

i see your point.

i don't think it's the best attitude that nurses and bedside nurses alone own "compassion". besides just not being true, the attitude is alienating to other healthcare professions. i still think we nurses do compassion best :) ( a little professional pride here). i don't think we are the only ones and i have been a witness to compassion from others in the healthcare field. i doubt they're giving out free passes into heaven b/c one happens to be a nurse--lol! but it's a nice thought.

the nature of nursing lends itself to living the gospel in practice. not all nurses do, but unlike any other vocation, nursing is the strongest occupation for "loving your neighbor as yourself." please read what i just wrote and don't put any more words in my mouth than i just spit out. thanks

our jobs are different from mds/dos (we can all agree on that). granted nps do blur that line a bit. but anyone in the know realizes that nps are not just mini-mds or md assistants and bring all of the wonderful aspects of the nursing model into diagnosing and treating illness.

you obviously have a different experience with nps than i do. all i see is lickspittles of physicians--oh, and they get paid more and get to call themselves "advance practice nurses." so, there you go.

I think we've pretty much exhausted this topic, and it's good that we did, because I got a chance to see where you stand and you now know where I stand on nurse professionalism.

I do want to say for the record that I don't consider NPs useless. Nor do I think of them as bad. I just think they shouldn't get to have the title of "advanced practice" registered nurses, because as NPs they have abandon the practice of nursing. But we hold them in high regard, because deep down nurses think of themselves as second-class to MDs. If we did not hold this opinion of ourselves, we would have relegated NPs to the status of PA a long time ago. As a profession, we are competing with MDs and we shouldn't be.

Nurses are not MDs. Nurses are nurses and their profession is a different profession.

Specializes in Community Health Nurse.

NPs ------ IMPO --------- are indeed NURSES! I have no problem with the title of Advance Practice Nurse either. If they were not STILL nurses, then WHY are they called Advance Practice NURSES? :confused:

I have been examined and treated by NPs before, and have no problem with them whatsoever. I trust that they are experienced at what they are licensed and certified to do, and if they weren't any good, I wouldn't let one assess me, etc. anymore than I do a doctor I find incompetent.

Oh well.......whatever floats your boat, Plato. :o

Specializes in Home Health.
But we hold them (NP's) in high regard, because deep down nurses think of themselves as second-class to MDs.

Please don't presume that I feel second to an MD. Not all nurses feel like you do. Maybe that is how you feel, but I don't. Feel free to express your own opinions, but don't assume every nurse agrees with you. If that is how YOU feel say "Deep downI think that my nursing career is second-class to MD's." That I would not have a problem with, assuming we all feel as you do I do have a problem with. See the difference?

Specializes in Case Mgmt; Mat/Child, Critical Care.
Originally posted by Plato

I think we've pretty much exhausted this topic, and it's good that we did, because I got a chance to see where you stand and you now know where I stand on nurse professionalism.

I do want to say for the record that I don't consider NPs useless. Nor do I think of them as bad. I just think they shouldn't get to have the title of "advanced practice" registered nurses, because as NPs they have abandon the practice of nursing. But we hold them in high regard, because deep down nurses think of themselves as second-class to MDs. If we did not hold this opinion of ourselves, we would have relegated NPs to the status of PA a long time ago. As a profession, we are competing with MDs and we shouldn't be.

Nurses are not MDs. Nurses are nurses and their profession is a different profession.

OK, it's truly clear that you have "issues" with NP's. Too bad, but not much is gonna change, so I would probably focus my energy elsewhere. Perhaps, one day, you too will work with NP's or CNM's that are more expanded than the role you obviously see them in.

I want to point out, and most nurses I know would agree w/me on this one:I, nor do most nurses (at least that I know), think of ourselves as "second-class to MD's". And we aren't "competing" w/MD's either. Where in the world do you get these ideas? It sounds more like an issue of low self esteem or perhaps regret over a career choice, I surely don't know, but those remarks are way off base.

No, nurses are not MD's and MD's are not nurses...plain as day, clear as a bell, and I, for one, wouldn't want it any other way!:roll

Hoolahan,

Please don't go there. If I had the problem of professional low self-esteem, then I would accept NPs as nurses--just like you do. I do not. So, even though I said "We" I was only trying to be nice. It's really you who think of the MD-nurse as advanced that have the problem.

But, on to bigger and brighter things.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.
Originally posted by Plato

But we hold them in high regard, because deep down nurses think of themselves as second-class to MDs.

Pleeeeeeze speak for yourself. I can guarantee you that this nurse does not consider herself "second-class" to any MD or any other professional either. I am just as valuable, I just play a different role. But this statement tells me a lot about you Plato and where you are coming from.

If we did not hold this opinion of ourselves, we would have relegated NPs to the status of PA a long time ago.

I wonder what status you think PAs have? Unlike NPs they are unable to practice independently and do not have their own model of care....oh never mind we've been down this road before. You're not going to get it.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Plato...

please do not even attempt to speak for all nurses, especially regarding some misguided belief we feel "less than doctors".....

in my case, you could not be further from the truth if you tried.

to me, this thread was really quite insulting and failed to make a point to me, anyhow.

Wow...NP's have "abandoned nursing"?

Don't presume to speak for me, either. Perhaps you'd be happier if we were back in the days of standing at attention when a doctor came to the nurses' station, giving our chairs to the doctor, and following a doctor as he made rounds, saying, "Yes, Doctor", "No, Doctor", "Right away, Doctor."

Plato - is your first name Mario????

Originally posted by AshleyKay

I'm in nursing school and I have to admit, I've been disgusted by 75 percent of the nurses I've had to come across. I realize this isn't the same everywhere, but every single ICU nurse I've dealt with is wonderful. The ER, well I'm not even going to go there.

I'm so glad you're not letting bad experiences in one ED color your opinion of all ED nurses.

Perhaps another profession might suit you better, since you find so many of us disgusting. Who on earth will be good enough for you when you graduate and need preceptors?

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I agree with Fab 4....Ashley please find another vocation ----if 75% of us disgust you,why on earth join our ranks? Best of luck to you. I am sorry you feel this way, really.

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