All this talk of professionalism and being respected by doctors makes me sick.
I am a professional. I am a nurse. My job is to diagnose and treat human responses to illness (care for the sick). I also educate patients, assess their physical condition, and rehabilitate them. Society considers an RN a professional position, so I am a professional. I am not a doctor, I don't work for a doctor; I am not a doctor's assistant. I work for my hospital and my nurse manager.
A doctor is an academically prepared individual who diagnoses and treats medical problems in human beings. We use doctors in caring for patients who have medical problems. We need their medical orders (orders for the patient--not orders to us as in "ordering" us to do something), because we can't legally administer medical interventions without them, why? because we are nurses not doctors!
I'm in the profession of caring for people, especially sick people, and in my case especially sick people with cardiac conditions. So, naturally I have problems with the nurse practioner being considered an "advance practice nurse." In reality they are a doctor's assistant. Our professionalism does not come by being more like a doctor but by being more of a nurse.
I respect doctors, but then I respect patients as well, and I respect strangers on the street. Doctors are not nurses, and I feel they are missing out on the greatest spiritual vocation available. If they think they are above me, professionally, then they are as misguided as the nurse who thinks he's not a professional if he can't write a prescription for amoxacillin.
As much as I would like to reply, there are just way too many replies to answer, so I will have to just read them now and pick out one or two to answer. I assure you, I'm not ignoring you, I just don't know how to use the software in here yet well enough to do it in less than three hours.
nursing is nursing; medicine is medicine. i really am not going to have a conversation with you, because i don't consider you a nurse, and i'm here to discuss with nurses. that's my opinion, and it may not be the majority opinion, but it should be. jealous? of what? what makes you think that all nurses want to be you? it's that arrogance and low professional esteem, i assure you, that made you abandon nursing and play physician. [/b]
isn't this getting a little nasty? nursing and medicine are interlinked...one cannot survive without the other. i do not feel that nps have abandoned nursing just like i don't consider msn nurses to have abandoned nursing. why are you so upset with nps? can you explain yourself and your feelings?
Are you sure that the NPs and CNMs work "for" the physicians and not "with" the physicians? Because they collaborate with the physician, does that mean they automatically defer to them? No. When one physician collaborates with another, does that mean they are working for them or with them? No.
yes in my area I am sure that they do work FOR and not with the MD's. They are paid by the MD and don't bill on there own.
I am on friendly terms with them and worked with many of them before they were NP's. I don't think there is anything wrong with them or the work they do. I just find it disappointing that they cant work on there own.
In my discussions with them they say that the reason there are no independent NP's here is because the MD's won't agree to "collaborate" with independent NP's.
As for CNM's the biggest problem for the one's Ive talked to is money. They can't afford to start a practice and banks are reluctant to finance them. They would have to come up with money for hospital privileges, insurances, equipment, employees and rent near a hospital, not to mention money to live on until they are established.
As I said before I'm sure that in some area's of the country there are independent NP's but not here. I'm not trying to knock them, In fact I'm considering going back for my masters. I'm simply explaining what I have seen here locally and wondering if thats not what Plato was talking about too.
I would like to clear up one thing, because it seems to be a common theme in these replies: I am not jealous of NPs nor do I have any bad childhood experiences with them. I simply don't like them trying to have their cake and eat it too.
Nurses, whether the individual nurse is or not, are thought of as compassionate angels of mercy. They have a very good reputation in society. Again, they represent a person who for low middle class wages is willing to bathe a leper or sit with a dying cancer patient until they cross over. They have the Blessed Mother Teresa as their call-to-arms and mentor. But their job is tough.
There are many ways to get away from the tough bedside nursing care (the generator of all that good reputation). A nurse can become an instructor, a lawyer, a consultant, an NP, a researcher, whatever. All those people are needed in their capacity, but if they are not performing bedside care or on the floor supervising those who do, then they are not sharing in nursing. That's not a problem--many are called but few are chosen.
What really gets up my crack is when the NP is considered an "advance practice nurse." Because that implies that what she does is higher functioning than an "ordinary" nurse. This is not the case. The nurse who can hang with it at the bedside as a nurse is the one who has the highest functioning and the most advanced practice. The NP fights to still be considered a nurse, because that's where the glory is. The NP fights to be considered "advanced practice" because it's obvious they aren't doing nursing any longer and there has to be some explanation that lets them keep their status as a nurse. This is indeed the way the world and ANA works, but I disagree with it.
The bedside nurse, filled with compassion and competence in caring is the most advanced practice nurse there is. What did Christ say? Did He say, "I was sick and you prescribed prozac and your boss the MD cosigned for it."? No! He said, "I was sick and you cared for me."
Doctors, their PAs and NPs, will always fail in the end. But the kindness and caring of the nurse never fails.
While I agree w/ your description of a nurse at the bedside being compassionate, I honestly dont understand how you can say that "Doctors, their PAs and NPs, will always fail in the end. But the kindness and caring of the nurse never fails." In what way do you mean that they fail?
An NP follows the nursing model, thus they retain the ability to be compassionate and to care for the pt as a whole, and not just the disease. Just because they chose to further their education does not make them any less of a nurse. Their foundation is nursing, and they just expanded on that role.
I have worked closely w/ 2 APRN's at a prev hospital, and the experience was a positive one. I only wish that my current hospital had them on staff!!
The bitterness and and malice you show against the professions that co-exist with yours defy the exact point that you are trying to make as to your profession of "christ-like" abilities as a nurse. Nursing is a calling, a career, a profession, whatever you want to call it... It is a way to touch someone and help them heal... emotionally, spiritually and physically. It takes many people to make this happen, as we don't all reach a person in the same way. Nurses care for people, MD's care for people, RT's care for people, NP's care for people and PA's care for people. SOme of the most compassionate people I know are PA's and NP's. The NP's I know use the Nursing Model to care for and treat their patients, they can just apply extra knowledge and skills gained. I consider all these professions important to care of the patient. The MD's I have/do work with consider mine and other opinions of the nursing staff to be valuable and instrumental in the ultimate goal, care of the patient that is OUR protection. Nurses that consider themselves better than or more needed than the other professions that co-exist with our profession, need to take a look at why they became nurses in the first place, IMO.
What really gets up my crack is when the NP is considered an "advance practice nurse." Because that implies that what she does is higher functioning than an "ordinary" nurse. This is not the case. The nurse who can hang with it at the bedside as a nurse is the one who has the highest functioning and the most advanced practice. The NP fights to still be considered a nurse, because that's where the glory is. The NP fights to be considered "advanced practice" because it's obvious they aren't doing nursing any longer and there has to be some explanation that lets them keep their status as a nurse. This is indeed the way the world and ANA works, but I disagree with it.
I'm sorry but you're wrong. NP's are advanced practice nurses. They have more education and education.
A nurse practitioner (NP) is a registered nurse with advanced academic and clinical experience, which enables him or her to diagnose and manage most common and many chronic illnesses, either independently or as part of a health care team. A nurse practitioner provides some care previously offered only by physicians and in most states has the ability to prescribe medications. Working in collaboration with a physician, a nurse practitioner provides high-quality, cost-effective and individualized care for the lifespan of patient's special needs.
NPs focus largely on health maintenance, disease prevention, counseling and patient education in a wide variety of settings. With a strong emphasis on primary care, nurse practitioners are employed within several specialties, including neonatology, nurse-midwifery, pediatrics, school health, family and adult health, women's health, mental health, home care, geriatrics and acute care.
Nurse practitioners are educated through programs that grant either a certificate or a master's degree. A registered nurse is recommended to have extensive clinical experience before applying to a nurse practitioner program. An intensive preceptorship under the direct supervision of a physician or an experienced nurse practitioner, as well as instruction in nursing theory, are key components to most NP programs.
Lastly, the scope of an NP's practice varies depending upon each state's regulations. Unnecessary obstacles to an NP's practice contribute to the rising costs and inaccessibility of health care for all Americans.
I would like to clear up one thing, because it seems to be a common theme in these replies: I am not jealous of NPs nor do I have any bad childhood experiences with them. I simply don't like them trying to have their cake and eat it too.
okay you're envious
They have the Blessed Mother Teresa as their call-to-arms and mentor.
WHAT ???????????? It's sunday. shouldn't you be in church?
Doctors, their PAs and NPs, will always fail in the end. But the kindness and caring of the nurse never fails.
I assure you I would run circles around you and your elaborate gibbergabber at any bedside
I agree with lisa and i think you are probably a troll.
Plato
37 Posts
Sorry folks,
As much as I would like to reply, there are just way too many replies to answer, so I will have to just read them now and pick out one or two to answer. I assure you, I'm not ignoring you, I just don't know how to use the software in here yet well enough to do it in less than three hours.
I am glad to see so many replies though!:)