Nurses are not Doctors

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All this talk of professionalism and being respected by doctors makes me sick.

I am a professional. I am a nurse. My job is to diagnose and treat human responses to illness (care for the sick). I also educate patients, assess their physical condition, and rehabilitate them. Society considers an RN a professional position, so I am a professional. I am not a doctor, I don't work for a doctor; I am not a doctor's assistant. I work for my hospital and my nurse manager.

A doctor is an academically prepared individual who diagnoses and treats medical problems in human beings. We use doctors in caring for patients who have medical problems. We need their medical orders (orders for the patient--not orders to us as in "ordering" us to do something), because we can't legally administer medical interventions without them, why? because we are nurses not doctors!

I'm in the profession of caring for people, especially sick people, and in my case especially sick people with cardiac conditions. So, naturally I have problems with the nurse practioner being considered an "advance practice nurse." In reality they are a doctor's assistant. Our professionalism does not come by being more like a doctor but by being more of a nurse.

I respect doctors, but then I respect patients as well, and I respect strangers on the street. Doctors are not nurses, and I feel they are missing out on the greatest spiritual vocation available. If they think they are above me, professionally, then they are as misguided as the nurse who thinks he's not a professional if he can't write a prescription for amoxacillin.

OK, I'm done:)

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Specializes in Home Health.

Whoa, I sense some hostility toward an uppity NP perhaps? Maybe you should print this out and leave it in her mailbox.

NP's are advanced practice nurses. They are still diagnosing human response to illness and working under the supervision of a doctor. They went the extra mile for the time, expense, and trouble of advancing their degree (something I am not willing to do, since usually the compensation is not adequate,) so I think they deserve the title. Even hospitals have medical directors, and yes, you are in a round-about way functioning under there supervision as well.

If you are craving more autonomy, I suggest home health, if you can tolerate the paperwork.

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No, nurses are not doctors, and fish are not daisies.

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No, nurses are not doctors, and fish are not daisies.

This made me laugh out loud!

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

what is the point of this post?

Not flaming but somehow I am missing it...

maybe I need some coffee.

I KNOW I am not a doctor; I am smart enough, but have no desire to do that line of work ----not to mention the time to get there.

I am proud to be an RN.

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Hoolahan,

H: Whoa, I sense some hostility toward an uppity NP perhaps? Maybe you should print this out and leave it in her mailbox.

P: Then you're mistaken. I have no issues with any NP. But an NP is a nurse who has become an assistant to a doctor. There are some states where they practice pretty independently, and in that case, they are even more like a doctor than a nurse.

H: NP's are advanced practice nurses. They are still diagnosing human response to illness and working under the supervision of a doctor.

P: That doesn't make any sense. I see what they do.

H: They went the extra mile for the time, expense, and trouble of advancing their degree (something I am not willing to do, since usually the compensation is not adequate,) so I think they deserve the title.

P: Perhaps you are not able to separate what a physician is and a nurse is. If that is the case, you will always consider nurses "less" than a doctor. I see them as completely separate animals.

H: Even hospitals have medical directors, and yes, you are in a round-about way functioning under there supervision as well.

P: In that case, I'm working for the stockholders and the Board of Nursing, too. But the bottom line is I don't have a physician as a supervisor.

H:If you are craving more autonomy, I suggest home health, if you can tolerate the paperwork.

P: I'm as autonomous as my profession allows, and I work for a hospital that sets forth rules and regulations for my practice while under their roof. My job is to care for people who are sick. That's my profession. The law allows me to do medical interventions in aid of that task if there is a physicians order for it, because they are the medical professionals. I am a nurse. My profession is to "care" for sick people who couldn't otherwise care for themselves.

The truth is, most people think caring for the sick is a dirty, low job. Just last night at a banquet a man told me his wife was going to nursing school, and then he quickly added that she isn't going to be "wiping butts" or anything, she wants to do something other than work in the "hosptial." I replied that for me, wiping someones butt who can't wipe it for themselves is glory and honor. It is an extreme power. Of course, he didn't see it that way.

My point is that nursing is nursing and medicine is medicine, and almost every nurse I encounter has dreams of one day not working at the bedside, and I think that's a shame, because that's where the meat of the profession is. We need NPs, we need nurse supervisors, we need nursing school instructors and nurse lawyers and nurse consultants and CRNAs, et al ad nauseum, but the bottom line is that our profession is nursing, and that means caring for sick people who can't care for themselves.

To do that, we have to have a great working knowledge of medicine, anatomy and physiology, physical assessment pharmacology, psychology, educational techniques, and most of all, an exceptional ability to comfort human beings in distress--whatever that entails. Our degree is the ADN/BSN. MSNs are for teaching and DNSc is for research. Physicians are professionals as well as nurses, and together we form the core of an endeavor to alleviate human suffering.

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I'm in the profession of caring for people, especially sick people, and in my case especially sick people with cardiac conditions. So, naturally I have problems with the nurse practioner being considered an "advance practice nurse." In reality they are a doctor's assistant.

Nevermind, you posted your response as I posted my question...Question answered.

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I am with smilingblueeyes I dont get the point of this post.

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Specializes in ICU.
Originally posted by SmilingBluEyes

I am proud to be an RN.

Ummm, ditto.

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.
Our degree is the ADN/BSN. MSNs are for teaching and DNSc is for research

Master of Science in Nursing Program: Nebraska Wesleyan

The Master of Science in Nursing (MSN) degree is a 36-credit-hour program that prepares students to be leaders in the field of nursing as nurse educators, administrators, managers or entrepreneurs.

The curriculum offers students a choice between two tracks, one focusing on the nurse as educator, and one on the nurse as leader, manager and entrepreneur. The program also prepares students for the challenges of modern nursing through its overall emphasis on transcultural nursing, ethics, research and the application of knowledge and skills in a practice setting.

http://www.nebrwesleyan.edu/academics/msn.php

Program Objectives: University of Southern Indiana

The Department of Nursing offers a graduate program leading to the Master of Science in Nursing (MSN) degree. The objectives of the program are to prepare nurses at an advanced practice level who demonstrate professional leadership and foster a research climate in the practice of nursing. The graduate of the master's degree program is a clinician, administrator or educator who can:

    [*]Synthesize knowledge and concepts from nursing, the sciences, and humanities as a foundation for advanced nursing practice;

    [*]Utilize critical thinking and independent judgment to manage and provide advanced nursing practice;

    [*]Participate in systematic inquiry and research to improve nursing care and enhance nursing as a profession;

    [*]Integrate an understanding of legal, socioeconomic, political, and ethical forces that affect client care and the health care policy;

    [*]Collaborate with other health care professionals and consumers as leaders, advocates, and change agents to plan, implement, and evaluate health care and health care policy;

    [*]Provide leadership in maintaining and promoting the values of caring, accountability, competence, collegiality, life-long learning, and professional growth.

    [/list=1]

    http://www.usi.edu/gradstud/nursing.asp

    From: University of Colorado Health Sciences Center (UCHSC)

    The Doctor of Nursing (ND)

    This professional graduate program provides non-nursing college graduates entry into nursing practice. The curriculum is four years of full-time study, including summers. Upon graduation, the Nursing Doctorate is an advanced practice nurse specialist in care/case management and clinical outcomes research. Students may choose to combine the N.D. with a Master of Science Degree and specialty (such as nurse practitioner or nurse midwifery) or Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) degree.

    The Ph.D.

    This program is designed to prepare nurse scholars who advance the art, science, and practice of the discipline. Doctoral preparation in nursing develops abilities to engage in all dimensions of professional and scholarly life, including the conduct of scholarly inquiry, leadership in health care delivery systems, and public policy formation. Students in the Ph.D. program select one of four practice-inquiry focus areas for special emphasis, congruent with their research goals: the Human Experience of Health Illness Healing, the Human Technology Interface, the Environmental Contexts of Health and Health Care Delivery, and Quality and Cost-Effective Outcomes.

    http://www2.uchsc.edu/son/sonweb.asp?section=Welcome&LNav=defaultLNav.asp&content=dean/content/welcomeContent.htm

    University of Pennsylvania

    The Penn Nursing Advatage: creating knowlege producing leaders, defining practice

    Nurse Practitioner Programs

    Adult Acute Care Nurse Practitioner

    Adult Health Nurse Practitioner

    Adult Oncology Nurse Practitioner

    Family Health Nurse Practitioner

    Gerontology Nurse Practitioner

    Neonatal Nurse Practitioner

    Pediatric Acute/Chronic Care Nurse Practitioner

    Pediatric Critical Care Nurse Practitioner

    Pediatric Nurse Practitioner

    Pediatric Oncology Nurse Practitioner

    Women's Health Care Nurse Practitioner

    Advanced Practice Specialist Programs

    Nurse-Midwifery

    Psychiatric Mental Health Advanced Practice Program

    Administration Programs

    Health Leadership Masters Program

    Nursing and Health Care Administration

    MSN/Master of Public Health

    Unique Opportunities and Options

    Adult Home Care Option

    Clinical Nurse Specialist Option

    Occupational and Environmental Health Option

    Perinatal Clinical Nurse Specialist (CNS) Option

    MSN Minors

    Adult Acute Care Minor

    Adult Oncology Minor

    Behavioral Health Minor

    Forensic Science Minor

    Gerontology Minor

    Health Informatics Minor

    Health Leadership Minor

    Nursing Administration Minor

    http://www.nursing.upenn.edu/

    Catholic University: Doctor of Nurse Science

    Aim

    The purpose of the Doctor of Nursing Science Program is to prepare expert clinicians as nurse scientists. Through the investigation of clinical problems, graduates contribute to the development, validation, and refinement of theory and the advancement of the body of nursing knowledge. Graduates are prepared to assume leadership positions in practice, education, and research with the ultimate goal of improving health care.

      [*]Advance nursing knowledge through the integration, application, and testing of theory.

      [*]Conduct research supportive of the ongoing development of nursing science.

      [*]Assess the impact of social, political, economic, and ethical issues on health care and the discipline of nursing.

      [*]Collaborate with members of other disciplines in the design, implementation, and evaluation of programs and policies for the improvement of health care.

      [*]Assume leadership roles in nursing and health care.

      [/list=1]

      http://nursing.cua.edu/

      Sorry to disagree with you Plato, there is a wide world of nursing out there to choose from as Nurse Practioner, MSN and Doctorate levels. Your viewpoint might may been true 20 years ago, but not today. NURSES are shaping our career, practice and redefining healthcare--- with the focus on improving the lives of those persons we encounter in our practice. Our practice is what WE make of it today.

      Much prefer the care provided by Sue, my NP over my physician, her collaborator. In fact my husbands BP and diabetes under better control thanks to Sue. She checks his feet; doc only asks if he has any foot problems. :rolleyes: Karen

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I'm not sure if NP's would agree with you that they are a doctor's assistant. Just as you said you are not one, neither are they. They may have to answer to the doc and run things by him/her or have a prescription written, but they are not their assistant. Do you consider yourself your Nurse Manager's assistant? I sure don't....

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Actually, I agree. If doctors realized what we do then they would give us a little more respect. I am tired of trying to second guess that ones that think we should be able to anticipate their every need. I am sick and tired of the ones that think that their time is more precious than mine or the patient's. And I am really sick and tired of those that order test after test after test and wonder where the patient is when they show up to finally examine them.

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