This is one of the few things that kind of upsets and bothers me so much in the nursing world (well healthcare in general, but since im in nursing it bothers me when i see it with nurses more)
But so frequently there are so many people who recommend this alternative nonense, to seeking real medical attention, and it really just worries me.
Theres the obvious danger of interactions with real medication, but then it also promotes people to either avoid actually treating their problem. Or it takes money away from going to real healthcare, and instead ends up in the pockets of these charlatans.
In nursing school I saw it so incredibly frequently, and even in the hospital I see it somewhat often. Nurses who tell patients that eating grains causes their diabetes, or ranting about GMOs and this crap. Other nurses who are stubborn/ignorant enough to avoid getting vaccinated (flu shots!) for reasons other than legitimate medical reasons (id never expect someone with a history or guillain barre or allergies to force a shot on themselves)
If medical professionals want to do all this nonsense in their personal lives, thats their right. Its just when they bring it into the workplace and involve patients in it that it really worries me.
When its relatively harmless it doesn't bother me (ie some of the out there ideas that people may have for patients to improve their pain without drugs) fine. But when it just spreads ignorance and confuses the patient, its terrible.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
You're comparing apples and oranges. You cannot compare unstandardized coumadin to raw garlic, for example. Due to the very fact that coumadin IS standardized makes it that much more potent and with a much smaller margin of error. Herbal remedies have been used for thousands of years. Compare adverse effects/mortality between herbs and pharmaceuticals. Yeah. On that note, I'm done. I could spend the next 4 hours debating, but I have dinner to make and homework to help with. Suffice it to say I think your behavior is ignorant and argumentative.
But my point wasnt that nurses should hate herbals. But that someone who isnt qualified/educated/certified on a subject (herbals/alternative medicine etc) who is responsible for patient teaching/education is acting irresponsibly when they are putting some of this subject matter in front of a patient. Even when its in a kind hearted well intentioned fashion.
OP - do you "believe in" aspirin, digoxin, antibiotics, antineoplastics, antihypertensives, benzodiazepines? All originally plant-based.
I, too, have a problem with the way alternative modalities are presented with a total lack of critical thinking - not to mention the sheer merchandising that really is selling snake oil On the other hand, I also have a big problem with shilling for high-priced "modern medicine" as being the only possible solution.
I have a big problem, too, with dismissing something until you find out it works, then pretending that it was "modern medicine" that made the discovery. Penicillin comes immediately to mind as an example, as does modern obstetrics.
OP - do you "believe in" aspirin, digoxin, antibiotics, antineoplastics, antihypertensives, benzodiazepines? All originally plant-based.
I, too, have a problem with the way alternative modalities are presented with a total lack of critical thinking - not to mention the sheer merchandising that really is selling snake oil On the other hand, I also have a big problem with shilling for high-priced "modern medicine" as being the only possible solution.
I have a big problem, too, with dismissing something until you find out it works, then pretending that it was "modern medicine" that made the discovery. Penicillin comes immediately to mind as an example, as does modern obstetrics.
THIS.
As long as the modalities are being disclosed and are beneficial to the pts, I have no opinion on it whatsoever; including dietary changes such as gluten-free products, since it was given as an example.
The way healthcare evolves, it just best to keep an open mind on supportive supplements and modalities; it helps us be more flexible to options that can be effective; I prefer to be effective for my patients.
Oh dear, I messed up. The OP has been registered a year today (happy one year anniversary!). I prefer to be the first one (I had this in progress before someone else pointed it out but waited too long) to admit a blatant mistake on my part.
Having said that. . .
I think it's a little sweeping to discount all complimentary and alternative therapies at once. It's our responsibility to be aware of those therapies and know the empiric evidence surrounding a given therapy.
Having said that. . .
I have been disappointed in nurses at times when they accept certain therapies and practices without fully investigating them.
But it's just as irresponsible to lump all herbals in with homeopathy, laetrile, or magic crystals.
as a nurse, one of our most important roles is an educator. The one thing more important than treating a person's illness, is helping them prevent those problems, through education. This includes eating healthy, exercise, mental health, and if you wanna throw a few herbs in there, so be it. We don't want people to be sick, so we can get paid. We want them to be healthy and educated.
In the United States herbs arent regulated though. That Saw Palmetto, could be saw dust. And they arent prescribed/monitored by a professional. Heck the dosing and bioavailability is going to be completely out of wack.
A patient might be taking 25mg of epdhrine hcl from his pharmacy. Another might have 400mg of Ma Huang (the herbal form) and could end up having a heart attack or stroke from their heart rate and bp going all over the place.
I absolutely know that herbal remedies sometimes do something. Which is why its so dangerous for healthcare workers to just be throwing these terms around in front of patients, since you can have legitimate interactions.
And I somehow doubt that herbal products have just as rigorous research in europe as they do drugs. Because if that were the case that research and data would be available in the united states as well
Then why not phrase your OP as something to the effect of, "I'm concerned about..." and calmly state your concerns? Tossing out words like "crap," "ignorance," and "looney tunes" is only going to put people on the defensive. Just saying.
Im not arguing with you about its efficacy. Because I agree 100% that some herbs DO work as good as drugs. The problem is theres no standardized dosing, theyre not even fractionally as as regulated/researched as real drugs. And without a standardization a patient could be taking way more/less of something than they need.
If a doctor/np whatever told a patient with very mild depression or seaonal affective disorder that it was fine for them to take St Johns Wort I wouldnt argue it at all. Especially if this person wasnt a candidate for an SSRI or something.
But St Johns Wort is also a cyp450 inducer, and has an extremely wide and varying history of drug interactions. And is known for causing seratonin syndrome (among other problems). When you compound that with what I mentioned earlier (poor regulation/control/standardization) its dangerous. And way more dangerous when this person is taking it without discussing it with their PCP
Im not talking about telling a patient that theyre wrong. Im talking about nurses who believe in this stuff, and then present it to a patient.
Ive seen nurses tell patients that eating gluten could be contributing to their diabetes (and im not talking in the context that its because theyre eating too many carbohydrates or something). If someone wants to eat gluten free because their yoga instructor told them its the best thing evar fine. But teaching that crap to a patient isnt right.
That is why there are other disciplines that will be consulted to advise patients on their diet. Which, as an aside, what one puts in their mouth does have an effect on some illness ie: HTN, diabetes....and as a matter of fact, often patients dose their insulin on the amount of carbs they are consuming. However, that is for a diabeties educator to discuss with the patient and the MD. Changing diets can and do assist with a number of chronic conditions. It also brings to mind a prenatal vitamin with folic acid. Which is routinely suggested that all pregnant women take. Again, this is a case where "alternatives" assist. A "banana bag" for detoxing patients--all vitamins. Senna for constipation....I could go on and on.
As nurses, we should never discuss our personal beliefs with patients regarding medication. With that being said, we should never discourage a patient from a plan a treatment that is right for them, has been discussed with professionals other than ourselves, and are in place and seemingly working for a patient. If one's patient is on an herbal remedy as part of their plan of care, then we need to be mindful of educating at discharge appropriately, per facility standard. Cause the last thing that I would want to hear is "that nurse said nothing about my --------
In essence, the vent is regarding nurses who push an agenda of their own. Which is exactly what one does when they dismiss alternatives.
klone, MSN, RN
14,857 Posts
You're comparing apples and oranges. You cannot compare unstandardized coumadin to raw garlic, for example. Due to the very fact that coumadin IS standardized makes it that much more potent and with a much smaller margin of error. Herbal remedies have been used for thousands of years. Compare adverse effects/mortality between herbs and pharmaceuticals. Yeah. On that note, I'm done. I could spend the next 4 hours debating, but I have dinner to make and homework to help with. Suffice it to say I think your behavior is ignorant and argumentative.