Nurses who believe in herbal nonsense, alternative medicine, anti vaccine etc

Nurses Relations

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This is one of the few things that kind of upsets and bothers me so much in the nursing world (well healthcare in general, but since im in nursing it bothers me when i see it with nurses more)

But so frequently there are so many people who recommend this alternative nonense, to seeking real medical attention, and it really just worries me.

Theres the obvious danger of interactions with real medication, but then it also promotes people to either avoid actually treating their problem. Or it takes money away from going to real healthcare, and instead ends up in the pockets of these charlatans.

In nursing school I saw it so incredibly frequently, and even in the hospital I see it somewhat often. Nurses who tell patients that eating grains causes their diabetes, or ranting about GMOs and this crap. Other nurses who are stubborn/ignorant enough to avoid getting vaccinated (flu shots!) for reasons other than legitimate medical reasons (id never expect someone with a history or guillain barre or allergies to force a shot on themselves)

If medical professionals want to do all this nonsense in their personal lives, thats their right. Its just when they bring it into the workplace and involve patients in it that it really worries me.

When its relatively harmless it doesn't bother me (ie some of the out there ideas that people may have for patients to improve their pain without drugs) fine. But when it just spreads ignorance and confuses the patient, its terrible.

Im all over the place here, but just a rant

Specializes in geriatrics, IV, Nurse management.

What is wrong with reiki? My employer has reiki practiced on patients that request it. Keep in mind that we treat the patient holistically.

As a former herbalist-turned-RN, I find your posts highly offensive. Did you know that most modern pharmaceuticals are derived from botanicals? Did you know that in Europe, herbal products go through just as much rigorous research as drugs? Did you know that many herbal remedies actually do WORK, based on actual research and controlled studies, and aren't just snake oil? I also hope you understand the difference between "herbs" and "homeopathy" because those are two COMPLETELY different things.

In the United States herbs arent regulated though. That Saw Palmetto, could be saw dust. And they arent prescribed/monitored by a professional. Heck the dosing and bioavailability is going to be completely out of wack.

A patient might be taking 25mg of epdhrine hcl from his pharmacy. Another might have 400mg of Ma Huang (the herbal form) and could end up having a heart attack or stroke from their heart rate and bp going all over the place.

I absolutely know that herbal remedies sometimes do something. Which is why its so dangerous for healthcare workers to just be throwing these terms around in front of patients, since you can have legitimate interactions.

And I somehow doubt that herbal products have just as rigorous research in europe as they do drugs. Because if that were the case that research and data would be available in the united states as well

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
Of course I wouldnt use that kind of language to a patient. Patients come in everyday taking alternative medication, as is their right.

My issue is when someone who is supposed to be a medical professional starts taking their looney tunes opinions, and presenting them to a patient.

If a patient says oh yeah I deal with occasional depression, and a nurse is like oh I take St Johns Wart and now I never get depressed. Youre pretty much telling a person who may have a legitimate condition to ignore seeing a professional, and instead take an unregulated substance with no science behind it instead.

St. John's Wort actually has a lot of science behind it's efficacy, which finds it to be equally effective for mild to moderate depression as pharmaceutical SSRIs.

St John's wort for depressionâ€"an overview and meta-analysis of randomised clinical trials | BMJ

JAMA Network | JAMA Internal Medicine | St John's Wort for Depression: A Systematic Review

I could go on, because the research is there, but I'm not going to. Just like with all other meds, herbs should be used after consideration about side effects and drug interactions.

What is wrong with reiki? My employer has reiki practiced on patients that request it. Keep in mind that we treat the patient holistically.

Thats a patient going to a practitioner for a holistic services. I still think theyre throwing out their money but thats their right. Nurses in a hospital however, probably shouldn't be doing any of that.

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
In the United States herbs arent regulated though.

No, which is why people need to be aware to buy their products from a reputable, well-regarded source. Which is why one should consult a certified professional herbalist, rather than picking up a bottle of capsules from Walmart.

I agree that for many people, herbs and the recommendations to try herbal remedies are treated too cavalierly. But herbal remedies DO work, ARE effective, and should be treated with just as much respect as pharmaceuticals. If they're not, that's the problem with the person, not the herb.

I recently educated the midwives I work with on the difference between herbalism and homeopathy. They didn't know; they thought they were interchangeable terms.

Specializes in ER.

Herbs, supplements, and other 'non-traditionals' have their place in treatments. I'm glad I have a doctor who is respectful of alternatives. Instead of just being prescribed the standard drug company fare for my pinched nerve, I got a prescription for massage therapy. I was given exercises and now have changed my body mechanics and am 100% free of shoulder pain.

My TSH was high and I did research, started drinking filtered water, eliminated thyroid suppressing foods, started taking iodine and selenium supplements. TSH went down 1.5 points in a little over a month. My NP is going to recheck in 3 months. She is supportive of my 'non-traditional' approach.

I think we all need to be skeptical of standard medicine, drug companies, etc. There is a huge profit motive to keep people coming for more, rather than holistically healing themselves.

Specializes in geriatrics, IV, Nurse management.

Thats a patient going to a practitioner for a holistic services. I still think theyre throwing out their money but thats their right. Nurses in a hospital however, probably shouldn't be doing any of that.

Matter of opinion though. If the patient requests it and it doesn't do harm ~ why not do it?

St. John's Wort actually has a lot of science behind it's efficacy, which finds it to be equally effective for mild to moderate depression as pharmaceutical SSRIs.

St John's wort for depression—an overview and meta-analysis of randomised clinical trials | BMJ

JAMA Network | JAMA Internal Medicine | St John's Wort for Depression: *A Systematic Review

I could go on, because the research is there, but I'm not going to. Just like with all other meds, herbs should be used after consideration about side effects and drug interactions.

Im not arguing with you about its efficacy. Because I agree 100% that some herbs DO work as good as drugs. The problem is theres no standardized dosing, theyre not even fractionally as as regulated/researched as real drugs. And without a standardization a patient could be taking way more/less of something than they need.

If a doctor/np whatever told a patient with very mild depression or seaonal affective disorder that it was fine for them to take St Johns Wort I wouldnt argue it at all. Especially if this person wasnt a candidate for an SSRI or something.

But St Johns Wort is also a cyp450 inducer, and has an extremely wide and varying history of drug interactions. And is known for causing seratonin syndrome (among other problems). When you compound that with what I mentioned earlier (poor regulation/control/standardization) its dangerous. And way more dangerous when this person is taking it without discussing it with their PCP

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.

I agree that people should discuss herbs with their PCP. Problem is, most PCPs have no knowledge or training in alternative therapies.

With regard to your comments on standardization - the problem with standardization is it's based on only a few components, whereas many herbal remedies work because of synergistic effect. Their effects cannot be reduced to just 1 or 2 chemicals. I dislike standardization of herbs for that reason. I think that the "simpler's method" is a completely valid and effective way of preparing herbal remedies that uses the whole herb, rather than just isolating one or two components.

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
Im not arguing with you about its efficacy.

But you are. You said in your previous thread that there is no science behind the use of SJW for occasional depression/dysthymia.

I agree that people should discuss herbs with their PCP. Problem is, most PCPs have no knowledge or training in alternative therapies.

With regard to your comments on standardization - the problem with standardization is it's based on only a few components, whereas many herbal remedies work because of synergistic effect. Their effects cannot be reduced to just 1 or 2 chemicals. I dislike standardization of herbs for that reason. I think that the "simpler's method" is a completely valid and effective way of preparing herbal remedies that uses the whole herb, rather than just isolating one or two components.

Which are all reasons why they are dangerous.

If a PCP doesn't know anything about them, and is prescribing you several medications. Its a recipe for disaster and nasty interactions.

And just guessing on components, yeah. Dont think the FDA is going to be a fan of that.

If every dose is going to be different thats just going to result in complications and poor consequences.

Imagine if they did that with coumadin or something. Patients would either be stroking out or bleeding out all the time. Lab values would be all over the place.

I acknowledge that many of these herbal things have medicinal properties, but if they're not controlled/researched/standardized its really just a guessing game and or trial and error.

But you are. You said in your previous thread that there is no science behind the use of SJW for occasional depression/dysthymia.

I argued that it is dangerous and irresponsible.

I agree that some herbs do "something", its just what exactly something is isnt always predictable and safe.

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