Now that the Covid 19 vaccine is just around the corner... Will it be mandatory?

toomuchbaloney · Dec 11, 2020

20 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:

It won't be mandatory. Deal with it.

The technology may not be brand new but it has NEVER been used in vaccines in humans. That would constitute to it being considered "brand new".

Deal with it, indeed. That sounds like good advice. Health professionals are going to be offered a vaccine for a terrible contagion, the few who are afraid of the vaccine will have to deal with it.

Hotfornursing, RN · Dec 11, 2020

48 minutes ago, lifelearningrn said:

From the CDC:

Key Points to Share with Your Patients

In addition to the following key messages, you can refer your patients with questions to CDC’s COVID-19 mRNA vaccine webpage.

Like all vaccines, COVID-19 mRNA vaccines have been rigorously tested for safety before being authorized for use in the United States.

mRNA technology is new, but not unknown. They have been studied for more than a decade.

mRNA vaccines do not contain a live virus and do not carry a risk of causing disease in the vaccinated person.

mRNA from the vaccine never enters the nucleus of the cell and does not affect or interact with a person’s DNA.

https://www.CDC.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

The new mRNA technology directly injects the genes for the spike proteins of the SARS-CoV-2 virus into healthy cells to induce an immune response. I am gonna pass, but thank for your response.

toomuchbaloney · Dec 11, 2020

9 minutes ago, Hotfornursing said:

The new mRNA technology directly injects the genes for the spike proteins of the SARS-CoV-2 virus into healthy cells to induce an immune response. I am gonna pass, but thank for your response.

Is that how you will educate patients about the vaccine?

macawake, MSN · Dec 11, 2020

2 hours ago, Hotfornursing said:

I will not be taking their genetically modified, experimental vaccine that invades my DNA!

As lifelearningrn has already posted, mRNA vaccines does not invade your or anyone else’s DNA. I don’t know if you are intentionally scaremongering or if you have a knowledge deficit regarding the vaccines’ mechanism of action?

The technique itself isn’t new but it’s true that these will be the first mRNA vaccines produced and administered on a large scale. In that sense they are new and I will be keeping a close eye on the data as it accumulates. But I’m curious and hopeful rather than afraid.

Simply put; a traditional vaccine is a small part of the pathogen (it can be an inactivated disease-causing organism or antigens made by the pathogen) that stimulates your body’s immune system to react and produce antibodies so when the real disease comes along, your body will recognize it and hopefully be able to fight it off. A mRNA vaccine is an instruction to your body to produce a little part that the pathogen would (disease specific antigen) and then your body does the work and makes that part of protein that in turn stimulates your immune system to produce antibodies (well, mRNA vaccines actually stimulates cellular immunity as well as the antibody/humoral immunity. That’s a good thing). Basically the traditional vaccine is A —> C but the mRNA is more like A —> B —> C.
A perhaps slightly circuitous route that makes the body do the work.

For anyone who found my vaccines class for dummies slightly insulting (I was almost insulted myself ? and confused as this is something I’d find easier to explain in my own language), here’s a MUCH better and detailed explanation ?

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

And here’s a fun article from 1999 about DNA and RNA vaccines.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1986720/

And some information from the CDC aimed at providers.

https://www.CDC.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

macawake, MSN · Dec 11, 2020

1 hour ago, Hotfornursing said:

I am gonna pass, but thank for your response.

Okay. Would you be more inclined to take a viral vector vaccine like for example AstraZeneca’s if it becomes approved? Do you poo-poo all vaccines or are you simply worried about mRNA vaccines?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31604-4/fulltext

And here’s some more information on Covid-19 vaccine development:

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/risk-comms-updates/update37-vaccine-development.pdf?sfvrsn=2581e994_6

(It appears it was last updated in October and considering how fast things new information might not be included).

ruby_jane, BSN, RN · Dec 11, 2020

I think there are 100K-something doses in what amounts to phase 4 trials. In the VA system, as I understand it, the priority will be their LTC staff and patients, COVID unit staff and patients, then any staff who does aerosolizing procedures.

No way that stretches to me.

The majority of vaccine adverse reactions are seen in the first 4ish months of general use (phase 5 if you will).

So -I am hopeful for the Moderna version; I realize that as a community health nurse I am far less likely to be prioritized; and seeing the debilitating effects of COVID in two much younger, much fitter nursing staff than me I figure I'm good at taking my chances with the Moderna version, or Pfizer's. Not so psyched about the AstraZenecia version.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Dec 11, 2020

5 hours ago, Hotfornursing said:

I will not be taking their genetically modified, experimental vaccine that invades my DNA!

Please share with us how the vaccine "invades" one's DNA. Thank you.

Hotfornursing, RN · Dec 12, 2020

6 hours ago, subee said:

Please share with us how the vaccine "invades" one's DNA. Thank you.

The new mRNA technology directly injects the genes for the spike proteins of the SARS-CoV-2 virus into healthy cells to induce an immune response. My cells are my DNA!

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is based on an RNA-LNP platform of nucleoside-modified RNA, which has blunted innate immune sensor activating capacity and thus augmented antigen expression. Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, BNT162b2 (30 μg), encodes a P2 mutant S (P2 S) and is formulated in LNPs. Encapsulation into LNPs enables transfection of the RNA into host cells after intramuscular (IM) injection. These LNPs are composed of four different lipids in a defined ratio. During mixing of the RNA and the dissolved lipids, the lipids form the nanoparticles encapsulating the RNA. After injection, the LNPs are taken up by the cells, and the RNA is released into the cytosol.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144246/download

Hotfornursing, RN · Dec 12, 2020

9 hours ago, macawake said:

Okay. Would you be more inclined to take a viral vector vaccine like for example AstraZeneca’s if it becomes approved? Do you poo-poo all vaccines or are you simply worried about mRNA vaccines?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31604-4/fulltext

And here’s some more information on Covid-19 vaccine development:

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/risk-comms-updates/update37-vaccine-development.pdf?sfvrsn=2581e994_6

(It appears it was last updated in October and considering how fast things new information might not be included).

I am NOT anti vaccine, I would need to research...Took my Flu vaccine, no problem.

Hotfornursing, RN · Dec 12, 2020

10 hours ago, macawake said:

As lifelearningrn has already posted, mRNA vaccines does not invade your or anyone else’s DNA. I don’t know if you are intentionally scaremongering or if you have a knowledge deficit regarding the vaccines’ mechanism of action?

The technique itself isn’t new but it’s true that these will be the first mRNA vaccines produced and administered on a large scale. In that sense they are new and I will be keeping a close eye on the data as it accumulates. But I’m curious and hopeful rather than afraid.

Simply put; a traditional vaccine is a small part of the pathogen (it can be an inactivated disease-causing organism or antigens made by the pathogen) that stimulates your body’s immune system to react and produce antibodies so when the real disease comes along, your body will recognize it and hopefully be able to fight it off. A mRNA vaccine is an instruction to your body to produce a little part that the pathogen would (disease specific antigen) and then your body does the work and makes that part of protein that in turn stimulates your immune system to produce antibodies (well, mRNA vaccines actually stimulates cellular immunity as well as the antibody/humoral immunity. That’s a good thing). Basically the traditional vaccine is A —> C but the mRNA is more like A —> B —> C.
A perhaps slightly circuitous route that makes the body do the work.

For anyone who found my vaccines class for dummies slightly insulting (I was almost insulted myself ? and confused as this is something I’d find easier to explain in my own language), here’s a MUCH better and detailed explanation ?

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

And here’s a fun article from 1999 about DNA and RNA vaccines.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1986720/

And some information from the CDC aimed at providers.

https://www.CDC.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

No scaremongering or knowledge deficit here, my choice to take the vaccine or not is my decision based on my research. You are entitled to interruption of the information and so am I, no need to throw condescending insults at others. I am here to only read, comment and learn...NOT to convince anyone or force my opinions...you know what they say about opinions, right???

The new mRNA technology directly injects the genes for the spike proteins of the SARS-CoV-2 virus into healthy cells to induce an immune response. My cells are my DNA!...DUH!

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is based on an RNA-LNP platform of nucleoside-modified RNA, which has blunted innate immune sensor activating capacity and thus augmented antigen expression. Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, BNT162b2 (30 μg), encodes a P2 mutant S (P2 S) and is formulated in LNPs. Encapsulation into LNPs enables transfection of the RNA into host cells after intramuscular (IM) injection. These LNPs are composed of four different lipids in a defined ratio. During mixing of the RNA and the dissolved lipids, the lipids form the nanoparticles encapsulating the RNA. After injection, the LNPs are taken up by the cells, and the RNA is released into the cytosol.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144246/download

Emergent, RN · Dec 12, 2020

I totally respect people's discomfort and suspicion of this new vaccine. What I found amusing was, a colleague of mine who is rarely seen without a Pepsi in her hand, sooo concerned about putting putting a possibly dangerous substance into her body.

Uh, put that pop down lady, and go eat a healthy meal if you're concerned about your health. ?

But, back to respect, all sides in this country need to start realizing, it's OK for folk to have different opinions on things. Quit the name calling!

allnurses Guide · Dec 12, 2020

Moderna Therapeutics | May 2017 mRNA Vaccines

(from page three) There are now six prophylactic mRNA vaccines in clinical trials, four of which are being conducted by Moderna Therapeutics. These vaccines combine the advantages of DNA vaccines (natural antigen expression and production that is faster and standardized) while addressing many of the disadvantages. Unlike DNA vaccines, mRNA vaccines do not need to enter the nucleus, nor do they risk being integrated into our DNA, and they are directly translated into protein antigens. As a result, mRNA vaccines require only 1/1000 the dose of DNA vaccines and do not need special delivery devices.

The first-ever published data demonstrating a prophylactic mRNA vaccine’s ability to elicit robust immunity in humans was published in Molecular Therapy in April 2017. (Bahl et al., 2017)2 As with all new vaccines, time is needed to establish the level and duration of immunogenicity and the safety profile of mRNA vaccines in larger, more diverse populations. However, the innovation of mRNA vaccines offers the opportunity to improve upon DNA vaccines. These vaccines work seamlessly with the body to mimic the natural sequence of exposure and protection, without the dangers of a real infection. The precision and standardization of the antigen design and delivery offer public health and commercial advantages in terms of the speed and cost of discovery, the speed of development, the probability of success for many targets and the speed, cost and adaptability of production. mRNA offers us a new paradigm in vaccinations’ hundred-year history...

https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/RNA_Vaccines_White_Paper_Moderna_050317_v8_4.pdf