Why Do We Tolerate This?

Nurses Men

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You know, sometimes things have a hidden context. Sometimes, that context can be kind of ugly. When I see that, it causes me to wonder why we allow these things to continue. Hence, this thread.

Recently, two threads on this board have given me pause for the hidden context they contained. Both have planted in my mind the question "Why are we, as male nurses, tolerating this?" I have a few ideas of my own, but what are your thoughts?

https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96928

This is the first thread, and it appeared in the male nursing forum under the title "Men's sexualality (sic) in Nursing." In this thread, the original poster questioned whether we, as men, were really able to put our libidos aside long enough to do an exam/procedure on a female patient without looking at her "private parts" in "that" way. Essentially, she suggested that we would be unable to do so. As I read the original post, I wondered whether sparks would fly. Not because I wasn't sure whether any of us would take offense to the thread, but because I figured that post would be rapidly reported, and yanked off the board. It wasn't and no ire was raised. Sparks didn't fly. No one even poked fun at the notion that we didn't have anything better to do than leer at this (or any) woman's "private parts." In fact, I felt the tone of most responses was almost apologetic. Why is that, I wonder? After all, didn't the post attack our professionalism as nurses? Didn't the OP suggest that we are nothing more than sexual beings, with no ability to control our baser instincts? Why did we tolerate this?

https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90987

This is the second thread that gives me pause. In it, the original poster asks what is at least nominally a legitimate question as to whether or not men with copious chest hair should be required to wear t-shirts under their scrubs. When I saw the thread, I expected at least nod in the direction of infection control, or good grooming and the presentation of a professional appearance. Turns out that's not where that thread went at all. In fact, within the first page we were treated to some nurses' opinions about how sexy a hairy chest was (or wasn't), and how they wouldn't mind a male nurse with a little virile chest hair showing. And we all went along with the "joke." Again, why is that?

Now, before I am accused of being a humorless stick in the mud, let me say that I can see the humor in both of these threads. Both caused me to at least smile. At the same time, however, the first thread seemed to me to perpetuate the stereotypes of men in general, as well as men in nursing. We are unable to control our sexual urges, and should not be trusted to look at women without drooling. In the second, we are treated to what is essentially a reduction of male nurses to sexual objects. Why do we allow this, when our female counterparts won't tolerate the slightest hint of the same thing from men?

Consider what might have happened to both of these threads if they were put up about female, rather than male nurses.

In the first, suppose it was a woman who came up on the board stating that she didn't like her husband, the doctor, working with female nurses. After all, women became nurses just so they could hook a rich doc for a husband, and didn't care whether they stole him from someone else. I would guess that the OP would have been ripped a new one, and on very short order. However, boil both down, and the accusations are very similar. In both cases, the OP is simply suggesting that the nurse would be unable to control their baser instinct and act in a professional manner. In both cases, the OP would be suggesting that the nurse might behave in an immoral fashion because of that base instinct. However, in the actual thread, it seems to me that we are almost apologetic for the OP's perception of men. Why do we need to apologize for her prejudice?

In the second case, let's suppose that rather than chest hair, the OP had been concerned with large breasts on female nurses. Should they be required to wear a t-shirt, to prevent the scrub top from falling while the nurse is bent over, effectively "flashing" her chest at patients? Would that be an acceptable question? Moreover, suppose I posted a response to the question that said "Hey, I like big breasted women. If I had to be in the hospital, I wouldn't mind a flash or two, to occupy my mind." How long do you suppose it would be before I would be reminded (with righteous indignation) that the nurses were not there for my entertainment and titilation? How long before I was kicked to the curb for such vulgarity?

So, my question is this: Why do we, as male nurses, so readily tolerate that which would be intolerable if it came from us?

Kevin McHugh

Good points Fergus and I receive them well.

I remember a thread out panty lines. What if a male nurse (not me because you'd never believe me) in that thread said "I think females should wear white pants, very tight, and black thongs because I think that's kind of sexy", or even "I find panty lines sexy". Do you not think there might not have been someone who took offense to that? How many threads have there been about nurses who object to the sexpot image of nurses in the media? That females feel this way, yet can stereotype men as being testosterone run wild, and sexy in their scrubs is a slight double standard when someone ojbects and isn't taken seriously with those objections.

And no, absolutely not am I suggesting that the threads be more moderated than they are. I'm totally against that, and have made my objections known from time to time when they close down a thread.

I am sure someone would be offended because someone always is. I don't think you would be crucified though. Seriously, did you not see the thread about women's pubic hair grooming? That's a lot more sexually charged than chest hair and it went on forever with people discussing their preferences. Plus, the people posting offensive things about men were taken to task over it. I thought every poster that replied said something to the effect of "No, men are not testosterone driven psychos turned on by their patients". It seems like the only complaint about those responses was that they didn't have an angry enough tone to them.

Who ever said females don't have it rough.

Interesting how many females are answering a question addressed to the men.

Looks like Marie was right after all. Having a separate board for the male nurses have served to only divide, instead of offering a place for relating. :)

I don't mean to intrude on your forum, but I felt I had to defend the posters who did tell those nutty people that men in nursing are not sexually charged maniacs. A lot of us did.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

Fergus, no need to apologize. Those who have responded to this thread are one's I admire very much, including you, and always appreciate the input.

What I was trying to point out was that several of you gave the message "well, this is what females have had to put up with it, we put up with it, and so should you, why are you even complaining". Rather than saying something like "you know we put up with it too, there are many threads and it's wrong, we know how you feel".

Some of us males are sensitive to what females have to go through. Some of us choose not to participate in the "nursing won't get anywhere because it's dominated by catty backbiting females" threads. Some of us can relate to what you go through. Some of us are going to express and call you on it sometimes, and would appreciate some thoughtful consideration to what we're saying.

Woot!

I don't mean to say you should put up with it. I was just trying to point out that there isn't such a double standard and most of the posters did stand up for male nurses and their professionalism. You aren't alone:)

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
I don't mean to say you should put up with it. I was just trying to point out that there isn't such a double standard and most of the posters did stand up for male nurses and their professionalism. You aren't alone:)

Fair enough.

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
I don't mean to say you should put up with it. I was just trying to point out that there isn't such a double standard and most of the posters did stand up for male nurses and their professionalism. You aren't alone:)

Ditto.

And I don't look at the name of the forum before answering a thread.

(must look up the big chest hair debate...I missed that one)

Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.
Ditto.

And I don't look at the name of the forum before answering a thread.

(must look up the big chest hair debate...I missed that one)

Neither do I

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
Ditto.

And I don't look at the name of the forum before answering a thread.

(must look up the big chest hair debate...I missed that one)

Carolina, in your post your point was females get knocked on too.

You didn't mention anything about coming to the defense of males. So I guess I was misinterpreting it a bit. By saying that females get knocked too, really is nonproductive to the original post, because just because females get knocked on doesn't make it right for men to get it too.

The chest hair thread didn't bother me much at all, I was only trying to relate to the op, because it bother him.

That the overwhelming majority of females in the one thread were supportive of males is true, but neither you, Deb, nor Fergus mentioned that in your posts on this thread, if you did I missed it. Mainly I got, "females have their threads and problems too.........etc.". Perhaps we guys can be more supportive too.

But really, I'm not all bent out of shape. I don't sweat the small stuff and I've made my point about this topic already. Thanks for listening. :)

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.

Actually, my point was to Kevin. He wonders if sexist threads regarding women would get pulled, while those regarding men stay.

I pointed out that there are plenty of sexist threads regarding women that don't get pulled. Nothing more or less.

Forgive me, I thought that was quite clear, given the portion of Kevin's post that I referenced. But that was probably merely my female bias at work.

And I suggest that if women are not to participate in the male forum, that we have a gender box for us all to check...so that we cannot answer those threads and the men can have the male forum to themselves. That it won't show up under my "new posts" option.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
Actually, my point was to Kevin. He wonders if sexist threads regarding women would get pulled, while those regarding men stay.

I pointed out that there are plenty of sexist threads regarding women that don't get pulled. Nothing more or less.

Forgive me, I thought that was quite clear, given the portion of Kevin's post that I referenced. But that was probably merely my female bias at work.

And I suggest that if women are not to participate in the male forum, that we have a gender box for us all to check...so that we cannot answer those threads and the men can have the male forum to themselves. That it won't show up under my "new posts" option.

I understand. I'm a bit confused because you were agreeing with Fergus, who was responding to me.

I certainly welcome female input in the male forum myself. When I pointed out the female response, it was an observation. I think Keven was speaking to the guys on this one and the female response was more than other threads. I say that females have plenty to say about male issues and should be welcome if their input is appropriate. This board is about nursing, and in particularly male nursing, but it's not a guy's only room, it s nurse's room. But I'm not a mod. and I'm still disappointed in this forum for the most part. :)

Anyway, enough of this. Have a great day! :)

I wish i could say why we accept the double standards but I can't. I try to ignore people who try to alienate me.

I'm with Tweety, Have a nice day!:)

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Carolina, in your post your point was females get knocked on too.

You didn't mention anything about coming to the defense of males. So I guess I was misinterpreting it a bit. By saying that females get knocked too, really is nonproductive to the original post, because just because females get knocked on doesn't make it right for men to get it too.

The chest hair thread didn't bother me much at all, I was only trying to relate to the op, because it bother him.

That the overwhelming majority of females in the one thread were supportive of males is true, but neither you, Deb, nor Fergus mentioned that in your posts on this thread, if you did I missed it. Mainly I got, "females have their threads and problems too.........etc.". Perhaps we guys can be more supportive too.

But really, I'm not all bent out of shape. I don't sweat the small stuff and I've made my point about this topic already. Thanks for listening. :)

I guess you missed the parts where time and again, I have stood up (under some serious criticism at times) for men in all areas of nursing (and not just I but several of us).

Case in point: the thread about the little old lady refusing LPN/CNA. It somehow became a "right to refuse male nurses" thread for a while there. Guess you missed where I said there was no reason to discriminate other than in cases of prior sexual abuse. How many times have I championed my male colleagues, I cant' count.

So I come here and find Kevin saying this "double standard" exists. And I came to tell him we females take heat too, is all. That it's not all men who do, yet when they do, there ARE some of us woman who WILL stand with and for you anytime as men in nursing.

Anyhow have a good day. I will stay out of this one from now on. Far be it from me to crash on a man venting his frustrations sincerely. I meant no disrespect.

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