Medical professionals counter coronavirus lockdown protesters

Guest219794 · Apr 25, 2020

35 minutes ago, juniper222 said:
I encourage readers to look at the actual pictures of the protest and make their own conclusions as to why the protesters are angry. There have been several doctors who have said lately we should reopen parts of the country because this virus is no more deadly than the flu. Some of the governors have arrested individuals for being outside and isolated. That extreme and unreasonable response will make people angry. People are getting desperate and that is a problem.

Protesters have every right to be angry. It is a really frustrating situation, and financially devastating for many.

Also- remember that many people restrict their information to certain outlets that have, since the start, been promoting the idea that this is a politically motivated hoax. Imagine, if all the "information" you got about Covid 19 came from Hannity and Limbaugh. And, don't forget that many in this country also believe what our president says, and formed their understanding of this based on the idea that it like the flu, and will go away when it's warm.

So take that very legitimate frustration of being healthy and unable to work, and combine it with an understanding of this virus built on a faulty foundation, and of course there is anger and protests.

Violating the law while protesting is an american tradition. It is called civil disobedience, and has been an important part of this country. Trump's advisory Stephen Moore likened these protesters to Rosa Parks, who conducted one of the most influential acts of civil disobedience this country has ever known. And, an integral part of civil disobedience is dealing with the legal consequences. A legal protest is just a protest.

Since these activists are engaging in civil disobedience, and want to be seen as fighting for core american values, they need to be ready to deal with the legal consequences. That is how civil disobedience works.

But- enforcement should be selective, as all enforcement is. those who at least abided by social distancing should probably be overlooked, even if they were in violation. On the other hand, those who endangered the public by standing shoulder to shoulder for hours need to be ready to face the legal consequences, as with civil rights protesters they want to emulate.

toomuchbaloney · Apr 25, 2020

9 minutes ago, hherrn said:
Protesters have every right to be angry. It is a really frustrating situation, and financially devastating for many.
Also- remember that many people restrict their information to certain outlets that have, since the start, been promoting the idea that this is a politically motivated hoax. Imagine, if all the "information" you got about Covid 19 came from Hannity and Limbaugh. And, don't forget that many in this country also believe what our president says, and formed their understanding of this based on the idea that it like the flu, and will go away when it's warm.
So take that very legitimate frustration of being healthy and unable to work, and combine it with an understanding of this virus built on a faulty foundation, and of course there is anger and protests.
Violating the law while protesting is an american tradition. It is called civil disobedience, and has been an important part of this country. Trump's advisory Stephen Moore likened these protesters to Rosa Parks, who conducted one of the most influential acts of civil disobedience this country has ever known. And, an integral part of civil disobedience is dealing with the legal consequences. A legal protest is just a protest.
Since these activists are engaging in civil disobedience, and want to be seen as fighting for core american values, they need to be ready to deal with the legal consequences. That is how civil disobedience works.
But- enforcement should be selective, as all enforcement is. those who at least abided by social distancing should probably be overlooked, even if they were in violation. On the other hand, those who endangered the public by standing shoulder to shoulder for hours need to be ready to face the legal consequences, as with civil rights protesters they want to emulate.

Stephen Moore also stated that the president's power was not to be questioned. He's the interesting fellow shaping immigration policy, even during the pandemic.

guest1146168 · Apr 25, 2020

1 hour ago, hherrn said:
Protesters have every right to be angry. It is a really frustrating situation, and financially devastating for many.
Also- remember that many people restrict their information to certain outlets that have, since the start, been promoting the idea that this is a politically motivated hoax. Imagine, if all the "information" you got about Covid 19 came from Hannity and Limbaugh. And, don't forget that many in this country also believe what our president says, and formed their understanding of this based on the idea that it like the flu, and will go away when it's warm.
So take that very legitimate frustration of being healthy and unable to work, and combine it with an understanding of this virus built on a faulty foundation, and of course there is anger and protests.
Violating the law while protesting is an american tradition. It is called civil disobedience, and has been an important part of this country. Trump's advisory Stephen Moore likened these protesters to Rosa Parks, who conducted one of the most influential acts of civil disobedience this country has ever known. And, an integral part of civil disobedience is dealing with the legal consequences. A legal protest is just a protest.
Since these activists are engaging in civil disobedience, and want to be seen as fighting for core american values, they need to be ready to deal with the legal consequences. That is how civil disobedience works.
But- enforcement should be selective, as all enforcement is. those who at least abided by social distancing should probably be overlooked, even if they were in violation. On the other hand, those who endangered the public by standing shoulder to shoulder for hours need to be ready to face the legal consequences, as with civil rights protesters they want to emulate.

I agree with all of that in theory. It's when the President of the USA is encouraging it by tweeting to "LIBERATE" from supposed tyrannical Governors (naturally, directed entirely toward Democratic Governors in battleground states) from his own established social distancing recommendations...when "protestors" are showing up organized by some of the foulest far right movements, and in red hats and carrying campaign signs...while armed as if they're trying to intimidate people....AND blocking ambulances and harassing healthcare workers ...AND risking public health....

That's when things get sticky.

sidebar: I'd casually note that more than a small few of them don't look all that healthy to me and likely have no business being there taking that sort of risk to themselves.

Daisy4RN · Apr 25, 2020

Imagine if people got their news only from CNN, MSNBC, Twitter or facebook. I think the 2 MDs have proven a good point with numbers, science, critical thinking and looking at the big picture. Even Dr Fauchi is looking at this from only a medical point of view (not economic etc). At what point do we consider all people including poor and low income people who will be impacted the most. Easy for some of us to say just stay home and don't work when we are not looking at possibly losing our jobs, homes, business' etc. And this is not even taking into account that is some areas crime is up from people either taking advantage of the situation or being desperate. I think a happy medium approach at this point is the best option. And just bc you see a few people at the protests being political doesn't discount the fact that there are many there (and many more who are not there) who just want to go back to work so they support themselves, this is good for the individual as well the general economy IMO.

guest1146168 · Apr 25, 2020

14 minutes ago, Daisy4RN said:
Imagine if people got their news only from CNN, MSNBC, Twitter or facebook. I think the 2 MDs have proven a good point with numbers, science, critical thinking and looking at the big picture. Even Dr Fauchi is looking at this from only a medical point of view (not economic etc). At what point do we consider all people including poor and low income people who will be impacted the most. Easy for some of us to say just stay home and don't work when we are not looking at possibly losing our jobs, homes, business' etc. And this is not even taking into account that is some areas crime is up from people either taking advantage of the situation or being desperate. I think a happy medium approach at this point is the best option. And just bc you see a few people at the protests being political doesn't discount the fact that there are many there (and many more who are not there) who just want to go back to work so they support themselves, this is good for the individual as well the general economy IMO.

I'm just not going to get into it comparing CNN to a Twitter feed. The role of Dr. Fauci, a long established expert in Infectious Disease, is in fact the Clinical/Public Health dimension and to make Public Health safety recommendations.

To your underlying point, what I've been saying all along is that the medical and economic dimensions are not independent variables. Until the disease is contained with widespread testing and tracing of contact, without established effective medical treatments and a vaccine (both quite a ways off yet) there can just be no return to normalcy and the economy will continue to falter.

toomuchbaloney · Apr 25, 2020

Honestly, sure, maybe there are some people participating in some of the small protests who aren't political. But there is simply no way to quantify that, especially when those people don't mind having the the non political messaging affected by the political leanings of others. By accepting the message and protesting with that signage and flag flying, that creates an association and agreement.

It's reminiscent of that time that Trump said that people who weren't white supremacists were protesting with the white supremacists and lots of people wondered...who does that? Who starts out protesting about subject A and then just continues to protest when another group shows up and chages that protest to something else plus subject A? Especially if that change is something that you don't agree with.

I think people walk away when their non political protest is high jacked by political angers that they don't share.

guest1146168 · Apr 25, 2020

6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:
I think people walk away when their non political protest is high jacked by political angers that they don't share.

This.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Apr 26, 2020

17 hours ago, hherrn said:
Protesters have every right to be angry. It is a really frustrating situation, and financially devastating for many.

I forget which state it was, but the protestors were litterally blocking access to the local hospital.

Freedom of speech is one thing but seriously when that freedom of speech jepordises other peoples welfare and functioning of an essential service people need to take a look at how they are protesting and realise their free speech does not give them the right to be a dick

Guest219794 · Apr 26, 2020

21 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:
Imagine if people got their news only from CNN, MSNBC, Twitter or facebook. I think the 2 MDs have proven a good point with numbers, science, critical thinking and looking at the big picture. Even Dr Fauchi is looking at this from only a medical point of view (not economic etc). At what point do we consider all people including poor and low income people who will be impacted the most. Easy for some of us to say just stay home and don't work when we are not looking at possibly losing our jobs, homes, business' etc. And this is not even taking into account that is some areas crime is up from people either taking advantage of the situation or being desperate. I think a happy medium approach at this point is the best option. And just bc you see a few people at the protests being political doesn't discount the fact that there are many there (and many more who are not there) who just want to go back to work so they support themselves, this is good for the individual as well the general economy IMO.

Well, since we are talking about the protesters- The people who restrict their information intake to CNN, MSNBC, Twitter or FB aren't out protesting. They most likely believe that this is a deadly virus warranting science based precautions, and will be far more likely to consider expert scientific opinions over that of politicians. Not saying that is a good way to inform all your decisions, but, nope- they aren't out maskless standing shoulder to shoulder with a "Give me liberty or give me death" signs.

As far as Faucci only looking at the medical end- I actually heard him speak this morning to re-opening, and he is on board with the white house plan as it is laid out here. https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/

It is a plan with economic benefit in mind using scientific metrics to guide the pace of re-opening. While I have huge issues with the way this administration has handled this crisis, this plan seems well thought out.

Unfortunately it is being undermined by "liberate" tweets and other horsecrap.

The protesters have a legitimate beef. What they need is consistent leadership explaining that they are valued, and in the long run their interests will be met by the current strategy laid out by the white house. This is not the message they are getting.

Emergent, RN · Apr 26, 2020

There is an obnoxious right wing aspect to these protests. I joined a facebook page started to try to get the economy of my state opening up. I'm in favor of loosening up this quarantine for economic reasons.

I've been very turned off by a lot of the comments made there. I've been calling people libtards is really insulting. There are just a lot of lowbrow people on that page.

I'm not impressed with our Democratic governor, but I don't think he's an evil man looking to take over people's lives. The amount of Venom directed towards him on that page is very similar to what people direct towards President Trump.

Like I have said, everyone has strong opinions, but hurling insults at one another is not constructive.

Correction, I think calling people libtards is hateful and insulting

toomuchbaloney · Apr 26, 2020

1 minute ago, Emergent said:
There is an obnoxious right wing aspect to these protests. I joined a facebook page started to try to get the economy of my state opening up. I'm in favor of loosening up this quarantine for economic reasons.
I've been very turned off by a lot of the comments made there. I've been calling people libtards is really insulting. There are just a lot of lowbrow people on that page.
I'm not impressed with our Democratic governor, but I don't think he's an evil man looking to take over people's lives. The amount of Venom directed towards him on that page is very similar to what people direct towards President Trump.
Like I have said, everyone has strong opinions, but hurling insults at one another is not constructive.

I hope that a few more people inform themselves a bit better about these protests. Thank you for sharing what you learned. Hateful partisan nonsense is not a one way street.

carti, BSN, RN · Apr 26, 2020

1 hour ago, Emergent said:
There is an obnoxious right wing aspect to these protests. I joined a facebook page started to try to get the economy of my state opening up. I'm in favor of loosening up this quarantine for economic reasons.
I've been very turned off by a lot of the comments made there. I've been calling people libtards is really insulting. There are just a lot of lowbrow people on that page.
I'm not impressed with our Democratic governor, but I don't think he's an evil man looking to take over people's lives. The amount of Venom directed towards him on that page is very similar to what people direct towards President Trump.
Like I have said, everyone has strong opinions, but hurling insults at one another is not constructive.
Correction, I think calling people libtards is hateful and insulting

LOL. Only in America will people politicize a virus. To Trumpers, you are considered a libtard because you support lockdown and data set by epidemiologists, doctors, researchers, etc.

Medical professionals counter coronavirus lockdown protesters

'We disagree': Medical professionals counter coronavirus lockdown protesters