Mandatory Vaccine Waiver in Nursing School/Clinicals

[firecracker_1]

Hey guys, I have a question for anyone else who is a fellow "non-vaccinator" or against mandatory vaccination. What did you do for nursing school, particularly clinical locations immunization requirements? After a lot of research, I've found that while many nurses can sign immunization waivers that are offered by some hospitals, etc., I haven't heard of a nursing student who has successfully avoided vaccination requirements associated with nursing school and clinical facilities.

I am well aware that vaccination is a very controversial subject in the medical field and many feel strongly on both sides of the issue. My intention is not to debate or discuss the merits of vaccinations, but to hear from other nurses and nursing students who challenged the vaccine requirements and how you went about it.

I look forward to hearing from you!

[NICU Guy, BSN, RN]

You must have as much passion to be a nurse as your convictions on vaccines. There are hundreds of thousands of different job that don't require vaccines and yet you are stead fast determined to work in healthcare. Do you really want to be a nurse knowing full well that every hospital requires vaccines to be current including Flu vaccine and it is going to be a very difficult road getting through nursing school and finding a hospital that will waive vaccine requirements (maybe a remote clinic in northern Alaska where they are desperate). This has a lot of similarity to the LGBTQ couple that passes 20 bakeries on their way to the 1 Christian baker that will refuse to bake their wedding cake so they can sue them on principle (since you have already consulted a lawyer). Please don't tell me you live in California, NYC or some other super saturated job market where 100 new grads are fighting for every open position. That will make your quest nearly impossible. As others have said, they have a hundred other applicants that aren't going to fight the vaccine requirements. Why would they want to deal with the headache? It would be so much easier to hire one of the other 99 candidates.

Do you think that you are the first non-vaccine advocate that tried to force hospitals to give them a waiver. So far, none of the other members have come accross someone that was successful at getting a waiver. I suggest investing in moutain climbing gear because you have a serious mountain to climb,

[Destin293]

firecracker_1 said:

because the huge majority of the medical community has a decidedly strong stance on the issue, most, if not the entirety of "peer reviews" come from individuals who share the same belief regarding the issue. So just because something isn't "peer reviewed" by the medical leading majority, doesn't mean it is invalid. D

You do realize "peer reviewed" does not mean a bunch of like minded individuals sitting in a room giving each other pats on the back for furthering their agenda, right? And you do know the driving force behind the entire medical field (nursing included!) is evidence based practice, right? And you do know EBP has its feet firmly planted in (guess what?!?!?) peer reviewed research!

Entire policies are based on peer reviewed research studies. Using alcohol based hand sanitizers? Peer reviewed research. No gel tips or chipped nail polish (especially in a NICU setting)? Peer reviewed research. The list goes on and on. Hospitals are not just making policies because they need something to do to keep things interesting, there are entire committees devoted to sitting around reading peer reviewed articles and comparing them to current hospital policy. It's how and why the standard of care continually improves.

[ctaylar, RN]

I was able to be temporarily exempted from the hep b series due to pregnancy. But even that was incredibly difficult. Even with a medical exemption from my OB, the instructors still threatened that I would fail clinical for not complying with all requirements. They eventually (grudgingly) accepted on temporary grounds, I've just had my first in the series.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

To the OP: there is no point to debating the merits of vaccines on this forum. It won't change the fact that your clinical sites will require you to be up-to-date on required vaccinations. No clinical, no ADN or BSN, no RN. End of story. In addition, your opposition to vaccines is fundamentally incompatible with an traditional healthcare career.

If you want to sue the school and clinical site, that is your right. However, lawyers don't work for free. How do you intend to pay for these lawsuits? And lawyers will only take contingency cases they believe they have a high probability of winning. And, let's say you manage to win one lawsuit - you will be blackballed from healthcare. No one will want to hire you and you can't force anyone to hire you. Do you think your nursing school instructors will want to be a reference for you when you are looking for a job?

I have a couple of suggestions for you:

1. You might want to consider a career in some sort of alternative health area like acupuncture, naturopath, homeopath, etc

2. Consider a career in law as a plaintiff's attorney

Nursing is NOT the right career for you.

[KrCmommy522, BSN, RN]

The school I graduated from didn't use to allow students to opt out of vaccinations - at least I don't believe they did. But, while I was completing the program I heard from students that they were starting to allow students to opt out - but they had to have a doctor's note to provide stating a medical reason of some sort. I think that is the only way. They are more lenient on the flu vaccination - I do know that. I believe they accept religious and medical reasons for that (maybe?). I found the waiver on the site it stated:

Student must request the following documentation from their physician:

• Dated/signed physician's note on letterhead or prescription pad

• specifically stating the vaccine(s) student is unable to receive,

• the reason (i.e., pregnancy, documented history of allergy, etc.),

AND

• the specific date at which time student can receive the vaccination, or

• physician's recommendation that student should NOT receive the vaccination(s) because the restriction is permanent

From the form, it implies there is a different waiver in regards to the flu vaccine.

Aside from that...not to make this into a debate or anything - although it seems that is already occurring here - but why are you going into a career that (from your own research) you know requires vaccinations and at the very least, if you are able to find a school that will let you waive the vaccinations it will be a fight, and then another fight every time you want to get a job? It seems like you actually want to deal with that. Why else would you choose to do it?

Also, I noticed your back and forth with other posters about the evidence of vaccinations - one small point (my own humble opinion) is that getting vaccinated is just another way for you to be advocating for your pt. You are going to be around sick people, with weak immune systems, you don't want to be putting them at risk of catching something else simply because you wanted to stand firm and not be vaccinated and were around someone and caught something. It is interesting to me how certain diseases - that are preventable with vaccines - that haven't been around in forever seem to be popping up now that there are more and more people against vaccines. But - that is just MY OWN opinion. Each person is welcome to their opinion! I wish you luck finding that nursing school and that hospital that will fit your needs!!

[AnnieNP, MSN, NP]

I'm curious, exactly why do you want to go to nursing school? Just reading this thread makes me think it would not be a good fit.

[CelticGoddess, BSN, RN]

AnnieNP said:

I'm curious, exactly why do you want to go to nursing school? Just reading this thread makes me think it would not be a good fit.

Especially when you find out she wants to be a midwife. Vulnerable patient populations and no vaccines. Scary thought.

[Akrhinehart]

I think it needs to be said that it is profoundly irresponsible and selfish to enter a field such as nursing and not do everything in your power to keep your patients and colleagues safe and healthy. You can have whatever misguided beliefs you like, but when you are a potential hazard to immunocompromized individuals then you need to pump the brakes and find another job. Healthcare is not for those who are unwilling to sacrifice.

[amynye]

To the OP - While I 100% disagree with all of the logic and reason behind this fight - I must say I admire the willingness to as one poster said "dig your heels in". That being said, being a registered nurse in the United States anyways one would think that refusing to accept and abide by a primary tenant of self care - preventative vaccinations - isn't really copacetic?

On a side note I don't support the breeding and dissection of animals for medical research including my education. Enough people die every day and since humans are the only species benefiting directly from our education I strongly feel humans should be the only one's chopped up and used to advance research.

That was a fight with my instructor for AP2 that was VERY challenging for me and I decided not to cave. So I can understand going against the grain, but again this is one hell of a grain to go against.

[NewNurs2020]

From what I have seen, some clinical sites will let you opt out of the flu shot and titers will suffice for everything else except dtap. I have seen in some school catalogs they have a waiver and ask you to tell them ahead of time so they can find you a clinical site that is okay with you opting out. Your other option although controversial and possibly immoral is to get a medical exemption from a doctor. Good luck with school, I know many nurses in your situation end up quitting due to mandatory vaccinations.

[Extra Pickles]

To the OP since you started this thread with the intention of finding out if anyone has ever heard of a nursing student successfully avoiding mandatory vaccinations I will answer no to that. I have worked in a variety of healthcare settings, have had many interactions with many students from many schools over many years. And the answer is very simple and straightforward: the reason the word mandatory is used for those vaccinations is because they are not, in fact, optional. They are not to be waived. You could get titers drawn to check for immunity that exists already. Obviously no one is going to insist on giving you a vaccination against a disease for which you are already immune. But if your titers show that you have no immunity and the vaccinations are required, you should be prepared to get them, period.

This is a discussion that goes on and on and on and on, every year around flu season, ad nauseum. I am not going to debate with you the merits of vaccination, I always thought it was pretty clear from the huge mountain of scientific data on the topic. You have every right to refute that for yourself, you do not have the right to expect others to waive these requirements because of "sincerely held" beliefs or for any other reason. You may find a school somewhere that lets something go. You may find a clinical site that does that. But to expect the ability to complete your nursing education in its entirety without receiving mandatory vaccinations at some point is honestly just naive and overly idealistic. I do wish you good look in whatever other avenue you pursue outside of healthcare. Someone here mentioned your interest in Midwifery, have you considered becoming a doula? Someone who is not a medical professional, not a nursing professional, but just a lay person who is helpful at births? Not going to get into all aspects of that, LOL, I just know that doulas exist, no nursing license required. Just a thought anyway. Good luck.

[Destin293]

amynye said:

On a side note I don't support the breeding and dissection of animals for medical research including my education. Enough people die every day and since humans are the only species benefiting directly from our education I strongly feel humans should be the only one's chopped up and used to advance research.

That was a fight with my instructor for AP2 that was VERY challenging for me and I decided not to cave. So I can understand going against the grain, but again this is one hell of a grain to go against.

I can only imagine how heated that debate must have been!