Mandatory Vaccination

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Sep 29, 2009

Not just no, but HELL NO on steroids, it should not be mandated.

If anyone else wants it, fine. But I don't.

Kolohe99 · Sep 29, 2009

I turned it down just today; well, I turned down a flu vac; I guess I don't know that it was for H1N1. I still think I have the right to decide what I have injected into my body.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 29, 2009

Ultimately I'm going to have to agree that we should be the one's that say what go in our individual bodies.

I understand that some people shouldn't take it for various reasons such as Elvish. However, there are a lot of people I know that won't take it because "I don't like shots", "it will give me the flu", "I never get the flu" or some other lame reason. I used to decline because I never had the flu, thought I was superman and would never get it.

I never got the flu, until my late mid 40's when I got the flu back-to-back years. Since then I've decided to take it and haven't had the flu since.

Obviously health care providers are human and must think of their own needs, however, since we have patient contact we're going to come into contact with a lot of sick people whom might have the flu, and if we the flu we could make others sick, and some of those people are already frail so they could have serious complications just because I gave them the flu.

I think it's a rather small request to ask health care providers to vaccinate against the flu and understand why some facilities may make it mandatory.

allnurses Guide · Sep 29, 2009

I turned it down just today; well, I turned down a flu vac; I guess I don't know that it was for H1N1. I still think I have the right to decide what I have injected into my body.

H1N1 isn't available yet.

It was just the usual yearly flu vac you turned down.

steph

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Sep 29, 2009

I'm pretty militant about flu vaccine for healthcare workers, and in the past have STRONGLY encouraged/cajoled/begged/pleaded/bribed/guilted my staff into getting them for the sake of our patients/residents, if not their own. But never in a million years would I have made it mandatory. Unless you are a U.S. military person serving in a foreign land, what is injected into your body should be YOUR CHOICE, not your employer's, and certainly not the government's.

tntrn, ASN, RN · Sep 29, 2009

I always get a flu shot and will this year, too. What I rebel against is my employer telling me I have to get one, or that I have tell them why not if I choose not to. None of their beeswax...

HM2VikingRN, RN · Sep 30, 2009

I am troubled by the mandate....However employers may be able to make it a condition of employment except for a valid medical excuse...

"Better to be a little bit sick than a whole lot dead" HMC Earl M....

Moogie · Sep 30, 2009

There's another thread about this and the debate over there is getting kind of heated.

https://allnurses.com/nursing-news/mandatory-flu-shots-426834-page6.html#post3889439

I honestly see both sides of the issue. As a health care professional, I've always felt it was my responsibility to get vaccinated to decrease the chances of my passing a contagious illness on to my patients. And I get one annually to protect myself and my family from getting sick But do the government and our employers have the right to mandate vaccinations? Or, because there have been avoidable deaths, particularly of children, adolescents and young adults, does public health policy trump individual choice? I simply do not know.

I will admit that I am frustrated with many health care facilities because while they are mandating the vaccination of employees, I am not sure if they're doing so out of genuine concern for preventing the spread of contagious disease. I'm sorry but my cynicism is showing: are the facilities that mandate the vaccine afraid that direct care staff will get sick, call in and cost the institutions money in terms of sick pay and PTO? Do they really care about protecting the patients or are they more concerned with protecting the bottom line? And, should employees get sick in spite of the vaccine (or refusal to get vaccinated) will these places permit them adequate time off or will they be pressuring staff to work when they're ill? (And, is it fair if the vaccine is offered that those who get sick get generous time off while those who got vaccinated have to pick up the slack? Should the vaccine not be mandatory but instead an incentive given, such as a small bonus or a little extra PTO for those who get vaccinated?)

When I worked LTC, there was a huge outbreak of a GI bug that caused vomiting and diarrhea. Surprise---it went though the entire facility and several residents became extremely ill. Many of the direct care staff also had similar symptoms and they were afraid to call in sick because, after a certain number of absences, one could be written up, suspended or fired. One woman told me she'd thrown up right before report, during report, then immediately after report but was not permitted to go home. :angryfire Wouldn't have happened on my watch. Anyway. I am just not convinced that nursing management who have, in years past, told nurses to come in when they're sick, are going to be any different with seasonal flu or H1N1. I think there will be health care workers who come to work sick and knowingly expose their patients to whatever they have because they're afraid of retaliation by management. And what happens to the hapless nurse or CNA who gets H1N1 on a holiday? Will he/she be penalized for calling in on Christmas or New Year's Eve?

It's also incredibly boneheaded that some institutions have laid off nursing staff while others have refused to hire new grads----at a time when a flu pandemic has been predicted. Pray tell, if the nurses are sick but acuity and the need for hospital beds increases---who are going o take care of the patients? Are we going to work the healthy nurses to death and then wonder why they're run down and burned out? Maybe administration and the CEOs will start emptying bedpans and barf basins. As if. :icon_roll

leslie :-D · Sep 30, 2009

I will admit that I am frustrated with many health care facilities because while they are mandating the vaccination of employees, I am not sure if they're doing so out of genuine concern for preventing the spread of contagious disease. I'm sorry but my cynicism is showing: are the facilities that mandate the vaccine afraid that direct care staff will get sick, call in and cost the institutions money in terms of sick pay and PTO? Do they really care about protecting the patients or are they more concerned with protecting the bottom line?

i truly don't care what their reasons are.:)

whether it's r/t protecting their assets or being concerned for the welfare of our pts, either/both reasons are reasonable. :twocents:

for me, the "bottom line" would be to minimize the spread of h1n1.

nurses and nsg assts have direct and frequent contact with a very vulnerable population.

it would seem some employers will not bank on everyone voluntarily getting the vaccine.

so in a way, i can understand the mandate.

that said, of course no one appreciates being told what to do.

this goes for both sides.

but when we put our 'hmmph' reactions aside, it really is an understandable mandate.

it's likely that 'they' (public health officials, govt) know something we don't about h1n1...

and that it goes beyond any sort of hysteria.

should be interesting to see what happens this winter.

i have a feeling we'll be losing an excess of our elderly.

i really hope i'm wrong.

leslie

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Sep 30, 2009

I don't think it's the elderly we have to be most concerned about, Les. If I'm understanding it correctly, they're not the ones it's hitting hardest.

It's the 18-49yo's that are seeing the highest m & m from this.

After Katrina and Iraq, I'm really leery of trusting my government to tell me the truth.

psychonaut · Sep 30, 2009

I used to decline because I never had the flu, thought I was superman and would never get it. I never got the flu...

Yup, that describes me up to this point. As recently as two weeks ago, I was still debating whether or not I would wear the mask.

Obviously health care providers are human and must think of their own needs, however, since we have patient contact we're going to come into contact with a lot of sick people whom might have the flu, and if we the flu we could make others sick, and some of those people are already frail so they could have serious complications just because I gave them the flu.

And this is where my debating led me. I serve an extremely vulnerable patient population; anything I can do to minimize my chances of being a carrier will be done. I will be getting my (very first!) seasonal flu vaccine this year, as well as the H1N1, when it becomes available. The wonderful irony is that in the interim of my self-debate, my facility ran out of flu shots; more on their way, supposedly.

I think it's a rather small request to ask health care providers to vaccinate against the flu and understand why some facilities may make it mandatory.

More than that, given the history of the benefits of public health measures on our modern lives, it is less than a "small request" and more of an "incredible privilege" to have this treatment available to us.