I am a nurse in a unionized hospital within a state that has made mandatory overtime for nurses illegal.
We are considering an out-of-state move, and I only recently learned that there are many other states that require their nurses to work more than the 36/40 hours per week which they are hired to work, with your job being at risk if you refuse to do so.
I have searched the boards for additional information and I still have so many questions about this. Is it a standard practice statewide? Is it hospital specific? Is this disclosed during the interview process? Is there any way to opt out? Are "mandatory overtime" facilities generally not great places to work, meaning would this be a red flag if it came up in a job search?
We would be moving for a better quality of life for our young family, but being mandated to work extra hours will impact our quality of life in a negative way. If anything, I am hoping to work less hours when we move vs more.
Thank you in advance for any insight you can offer.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, dream'n said:
Actually they can..or at least in my experience (which was long ago granted) could. I needed to give report on MY patients and if my DON/ADON were leaving or left there wasn't a darn thing I could do about it. The only time the ADON took report from me was because I'd already worked 16 hours and they couldn't mandate me by law for another eight hours. If the DON/ADON refused report or snuck out the front door before I could give it to them, what was I supposed to do other than stay?
If I'm not mistaken, both of those nursing positions have higher accountability for the staffing of the facility than you did. You provide them notice that you cannot stay and then you give that person report. It's their problem. That's why they make the big bucks. Everyone has occasions when they simply cannot extend their work day because their employer needs them to...especially without warning.
That is reassuring to hear, and is the type of thing I was looking for in posting here.
I was casually searching jobs at UNC Chapel Hill in North Carolina, and before you could even submit an application you had to agree to an employer statement which basically said that you understand your employer can change your hours, shift, and mandate you at will. And that freaked me out!
Wow! What a great way to recruit more nurses, not! That is a big red flag, shows total disrespect and I would stay far away from them! Can't get over the total disrespect treating nurses like widgets in the middle of a pandemic, but hey sign right up and join our team. We can promise we'll twist you like a pretzel whenever and however we want! I wonder how many nurses they get with that sales pitch. LOL
I would check out glass door and indeed and read the nurses reviews before taking a job, esp big corporations. They will be very revealing.
Unfortunately mandatory overtime is very common, even in unionized places. I worked at a union hospital and we were mandated while other hospitals weren't as they just worked short. Then with staffing cuts and mass exodus in all their hospitals both short staffing and mandatory OT became commonplace everywhere. Not just a 16 hour shift that could turn to an 18 hour shift looking for a replacement, but being forced to pick up extra shifts and having vacation denied. Also day shift step down unit pushed up to 7 patients, at times tried to push nurses up to 10 patients on multiple occasions and of course short CNA's if they even had any on nights especially! Our manager even made the rounds telling us we would be floated to sister hospitals in the next city if the census was low! I think she took great joy trying to rile up the nurses. Fortunately it was an empty threat as the union contract kept them from following thru as well as the covid surge that came shortly after. Yet they have the nerve to wonder why they can't keep staff and the massive nursing exodus of new grads and experienced nurses alike! Shaking my head.
The best way to avoid mandatory OT is to stay away from bedside nursing. Get a nice clinic job where you will even have holidays and maybe weekends off.
Wow! What a great way to recruit more nurses, not! That is a big red flag, shows total disrespect and I would stay far away from them! Can't get over the total disrespect treating nurses like widgets in the middle of a pandemic, but hey sign right up and join our team. We can promise we'll twist you like a pretzel whenever and however we want! I wonder how many nurses they get with that sales pitch. LOL
I would check out glass door and indeed and read the nurses reviews before taking a job, esp big corporations. They will be very revealing.
Unfortunately mandatory overtime is very common, even in unionized places. I worked at a union hospital and we were mandated while other hospitals weren't as they just worked short. Then with staffing cuts and mass exodus in all their hospitals both short staffing and mandatory OT became commonplace everywhere. Not just a 16 hour shift that could turn to an 18 hour shift looking for a replacement, but being forced to pick up extra shifts and having vacation denied. Also day shift step down unit pushed up to 7 patients, at times tried to push nurses up to 10 patients on multiple occasions and of course short CNA's if they even had any on nights especially! Our manager even made the rounds telling us we would be floated to sister hospitals in the next city if the census was low! I think she took great joy trying to rile up the nurses. Fortunately it was an empty threat as the union contract kept them from following thru as well as the covid surge that came shortly after. Yet they have the nerve to wonder why they can't keep staff and the massive nursing exodus of new grads and experienced nurses alike! Shaking my head.
The best way to avoid mandatory OT is to stay away from bedside nursing. Get a nice clinic job where you will even have holidays and maybe weekends off.
thanks for this reply, it's more of what I was looking for. yeah that disclaimer really threw me! I was only looking at that place because they have a perinatal psych unit and that is my niche. whew it's rough out there.
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
5 hours ago, brandy1017 said:
Wow! What a great way to recruit more nurses, not! That is a big red flag, shows total disrespect and I would stay far away from them!
I'm not sure about other states but this is pretty standard language in most job descriptions/employment contracts in CA. This along with other language to the effect that your employment is "At Will" and this peach "If any part of the contract is found to be illegal in a court of law all other aspects of the contract shall remain in force and applicable until otherwise litigated,"
I'm not sure about other states but this is pretty standard language in most job descriptions/employment contracts in CA. This along with other language to the effect that your employment is "At Will" and this peach "If any part of the contract is found to be illegal in a court of law all other aspects of the contract shall remain in force and applicable until otherwise litigated,"
yeah in job descriptions it basically says they can do whatever they want with you. but I've never before had to consent to something like that before I could even apply for a job. also mandatory overtime is unheard of where I am, so I am trying to get a feel for just how common is actually is in practice. I understand our employment contract and even our union contract leaves the employer open to do just about anything they want. but I am asking to see how often other employers actually take advantage of that. like, is mandatory overtime some abstract situation I need to worry about only in times of extreme crisis or will it be the norm at some facilities to require extra shifts. so far the responses are a little bit of everything
... like, is mandatory overtime some abstract situation I need to worry about only in times of extreme crisis or will it be the norm at some facilities to require extra shifts. so far the responses are a little bit of everything
Unfortunately I don't think you're going to get a definitive answer here, as this going to be specific to an individual facility. And,, you will likely find it varies from unit to unit within a facility. I think your best course would be to post questions regarding a specific facilities, in the appropriate state forum.
Unfortunately I don't think you're going to get a definitive answer here, as this going to be specific to an individual facility. And,, you will likely find it varies from unit to unit within a facility. I think your best course would be to post questions regarding a specific facilities, in the appropriate state forum.
Best wishes.
I will certainly do that once we have decided where we are relocating to. thank you!
The best way to avoid mandatory OT is to stay away from bedside nursing. Get a nice clinic job where you will even have holidays and maybe weekends off.
Very true. (There is the problem for new nurses of getting the bedside experience that some clinics want, however.)
Work outpatient. I’m being facetious really because I know that isn’t the solution for everyone. BUT I work outpatient and I know what my hours are because they are the same every week. Downside is there is no overtime even if I want it. Upside is I never work overtime.
That is reassuring to hear, and is the type of thing I was looking for in posting here.
I was casually searching jobs at UNC Chapel Hill in North Carolina, and before you could even submit an application you had to agree to an employer statement which basically said that you understand your employer can change your hours, shift, and mandate you at will. And that freaked me out!
If you're thinking about moving from a union state (like Minnesota, California, New York etc) to North Carolina to be a nurse, tread carefully. Have you looked into the salaries there? I started as a nurse in Durham NC a few years ago, and the pay was absolutely terrible even considering the lower cost of living. Also, in addition to mandatory OT, you might also be stuck with rotating day/night shifts, being floated to units where you have no idea what you're doing, having your PTO days cancelled - they can ldo just about anything they want. Don't take that employer statement as "just a formality." You shouldn't apply for jobs there unless you're actually willing to do it (or have no choice). The PTO and benefits are also probably worse than what you're getting now.
Not to be overly gloomy but if you've always been in union facilities and union-friendly states, you may be very unpleasantly surprised in North Carolina (or any states in that region, actually).
If you're thinking about moving from a union state (like Minnesota, California, New York etc) to North Carolina to be a nurse, tread carefully. Have you looked into the salaries there? I started as a nurse in Durham NC a few years ago, and the pay was absolutely terrible even considering the lower cost of living. Also, in addition to mandatory OT, you might also be stuck with rotating day/night shifts, being floated to units where you have no idea what you're doing, having your PTO days cancelled - they can ldo just about anything they want. Don't take that employer statement as "just a formality." You shouldn't apply for jobs there unless you're actually willing to do it (or have no choice). The PTO and benefits are also probably worse than what you're getting now.
Not to be overly gloomy but if you've always been in union facilities and union-friendly states, you may be very unpleasantly surprised in North Carolina (or any states in that region, actually).
Specializes in Surgical Specialty Clinic - Ambulatory Care.
I’ve worked at 9 facilities in 4 states. I would say 50% have a policy like this and in trying times the other 50% come up with one for the interim until staffing improves. I would also note that the type of nursing you are working could make this more or less likely (ER and home health were the two areas where I experienced this a lot; the floor or case management, less so.)
yes you should ask about these requirements in the interview and DO NOT pick a job that has them…or offer yourself for part time work at that facility and see if they take you up on it.
toomuchbaloney
16,055 Posts
If I'm not mistaken, both of those nursing positions have higher accountability for the staffing of the facility than you did. You provide them notice that you cannot stay and then you give that person report. It's their problem. That's why they make the big bucks. Everyone has occasions when they simply cannot extend their work day because their employer needs them to...especially without warning.