man holding wife still during epidural dies!

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Just read the ap report about a woman in labor at a kaiser hospital. Apparently the anethesia professional (don't know which kind crna, mda or aa) asked the husband to help hold the wife still while the needle was inserted into the epidural space of her back and, he saw the needle going in and fainted, fell over and hit his head, suffered a fatal brain bleed and died 2 days later. Of course the wife is sueing, stating that he was asked to assist the procedure and so "reasonable" care should have been taken to prevent reasonable forseable complications/accidents. My thoughts as a simply a student, is that this is a firviolous lawsuit, and the lawyer that is encouraging her to go forth with this case should be ashamed. Also I am so saddened for this family to have such a joyous event marred and a life gone without warning. I guess to all of you L/D nurses and CRNA's etc... don't ask a family member to help hold the mom still. :uhoh21: What are your takes on this?

Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
Right, we know a negligence suit is also a civil suit (obviously its not criminal), but it is not medical negligence. There was no professional duty to treat. Just like when somone asks for a 'curbside consult' and there is a poor outcome.

I believe that the outcome of this suit will hinge on whether the jury believes that the nursing and medical staff had a duty to the father.

If you work in the ER and a parent accompanies a sick child to the unit, then begins to exhibit signs and symptoms of an MI, do you have a duty to provide care to the ailing parent, even though he is not your patient?

For the sake of argument, let's leave out the part about the father holding the mother for the procedure. Pretend that he simply fainted in the room and hit his head. At that point, does the nursing/medical staff have a duty to treat him? Of course, the L&D staff can't and won't provide him with emergency care, but do they have an obligation to obtain care for him by calling the nursing supervisor, contacting the ER, or assisting him to call his personal physician? He was not the patient of the staff members on the L&D unit, but I do believe that they had the duty to assist him in obtaining care once he was injured in their department, or at least offering to assist him.

Perhaps they tried to get him care and he refused. If so, I hope that was well documented in the mother's record and on the incident report. Perhaps they thought he was only slightly injured and could be responsible for himself. But patients with head injuries often underestimate the severity of their injuries and don't recognize the need for medical care. It seems to me that this is where the L&D staff may have had a duty to either obtain care for this man or thoroughly document his refusal.

So depending on how the jury sees the hospital staff's relationship with this father, (Was there a staff-patient relationship with the father which would include a duty to treat?) the case may involve either simple negligence or medical malpractice, which is a form of negligence. If the jury believes that the staff did not have a relationship with the father, and thus no duty to treat, then the case will hinge on simple negligence. Did the staff act as a prudent person on the street would have acted in assisting the father?

If the jury finds that the staff did have a relationship with the father, and thus a duty to treat, then the case will hinge on whether the father received the appropriate standard of care for a head injury patient.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
I believe that the outcome of this suit will hinge on whether the jury believes that the nursing and medical staff had a duty to the father.

If you work in the ER and a parent accompanies a sick child to the unit, then begins to exhibit signs and symptoms of an MI, do you have a duty to provide care to the ailing parent, even though he is not your patient?

For the sake of argument, let's leave out the part about the father holding the mother for the procedure. Pretend that he simply fainted in the room and hit his head. At that point, does the nursing/medical staff have a duty to treat him? Of course, the L&D staff can't and won't provide him with emergency care, but do they have an obligation to obtain care for him by calling the nursing supervisor, contacting the ER, or assisting him to call his personal physician? He was not the patient of the staff members on the L&D unit, but I do believe that they had the duty to assist him in obtaining care once he was injured in their department, or at least offering to assist him.

Perhaps they tried to get him care and he refused. If so, I hope that was well documented in the mother's record and on the incident report. Perhaps they thought he was only slightly injured and could be responsible for himself. But patients with head injuries often underestimate the severity of their injuries and don't recognize the need for medical care. It seems to me that this is where the L&D staff may have had a duty to either obtain care for this man or thoroughly document his refusal.

So depending on how the jury sees the hospital staff's relationship with this father, (Was there a staff-patient relationship with the father which would include a duty to treat?) the case may involve either simple negligence or medical malpractice, which is a form of negligence. If the jury believes that the staff did not have a relationship with the father, and thus no duty to treat, then the case will hinge on simple negligence. Did the staff act as a prudent person on the street would have acted in assisting the father?

If the jury finds that the staff did have a relationship with the father, and thus a duty to treat, then the case will hinge on whether the father received the appropriate standard of care for a head injury patient.

So very well put!!

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Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.

I do think that medical malpractice law suits are out of hand. How ever. Where were the nurses? This sounds more like a nurse job, hubby can hold her hand, but a nurse should have been there to hold her. It is the same with immunizations. I always get some one I am working with to help me when giving shots to a youngster. Mom may say she can hold her kiddo down but most are suprised at how strong their 2 year old is and fail at their job...

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Maybe you could afford then to raise your child (children even?) by yourself for 18 years and by that time college will be 50k per year.

Yes I could. Single mothers do it all the time in this country. Sorry, but I'm not someone who thinks that a tragedy always deserves a cash settlement. It isn't always someone else's fault. Sometimes things just happen. That's what life insurance is for. Sometimes life isn't fair. It doesn't mean they are entitled to money. IMO, part of being a grown up is realizing that and dealing with it.

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Yes I could. Single mothers do it all the time in this country. Sorry, but I'm not someone who thinks that a tragedy always deserves a cash settlement. It isn't always someone else's fault. Sometimes things just happen. That's what life insurance is for. Sometimes life isn't fair. It doesn't mean they are entitled to money. IMO, part of being a grown up is realizing that and dealing with it.

my sentiments exactly!

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my sentiments exactly!

Yes. That comment was so far out and solid and right on. Everybody has to sue someone these days.

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Specializes in Case Mgmt; Mat/Child, Critical Care.
Yes I could. Single mothers do it all the time in this country. Sorry, but I'm not someone who thinks that a tragedy always deserves a cash settlement. It isn't always someone else's fault. Sometimes things just happen. That's what life insurance is for. Sometimes life isn't fair. It doesn't mean they are entitled to money. IMO, part of being a grown up is realizing that and dealing with it.

ITA! That is the point...we are living such a "gimmee, gimmee, gimmee....evrything for free" society as well as, of course the "I don't have to take responsibility for myself or face any consequence of my actions" mentality....I don't know how we are ever going to get common sense back!

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Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

Well, that'll be hard, since common sense isn't nearly as common as it used to be lol.

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It may interest you all to know that, whatever the outcome of the suit, the fact that this tragedy occurred, and the subsequent lawsuit, has caused me to rethink my practice.

In the past, if dad wanted to stand in front and help mom hold her position while I placed the epidural, I allowed it. In every case where someone wanted to stay in the room while I placed the epidural, I gave them the same speech. "If you feel faint while I am working, sit down. If you faint, you are on your own because I only care for one patient at a time." (Always said with humor, but while it got laughs, it also got the point across.)

No more. I will continue to allow family members to stay in the room while I put the epidural in, but will insist that they are seated throughout the procedure. Yes, the lawsuit concerns me, but it concerns me more that dad/grandpa/grandma/whoever is still around after the birth of the child.

Kevin McHugh

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I hear you Kevin. I am thinking practices are sure to change nationwide now.

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It is pretty common here to have a family member hold the patient - most of the time the patient asks for the family member to hold them. I see nothing wrong with it and do not think it even remotely means they are helping with a medical procedure.

All you are doing is hugging the patient -

What about husbands who come back for cesareans? Or as others have mentioned, hold their wife's hand and encourage her during labor? Or hold up her legs for her?

This is silly - shall we strap the man to his chair and not let him help at all??

Or maybe go back to the old days and not let men in deliveries?

I'm available to the CRNA when I'm free from having the laboring mom with her arms around my neck and her head in my chest . . . . plus she is more comfortable with her arms around someone that she knows and loves.

steph[/quote

Exactly, we do the same thing, we have dad hug the pt, in which they are more comfortable with a loved one doing so, also this is the age of family centered care, and most family members like to be involoved with the pts care, of course within reason, he wasnt assisting in the procedure! I am truly suprised at the healthcare professionals who have posted and agree that this was wrong!

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Specializes in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych.
I am truly suprised at the healthcare professionals who have posted and agree that this was wrong!

I think part of this has to do with the different philosophy in OB. It is expected that family be supportive during labor where as in other specialties, family is not so much in the picture. The professionals here are confusing support with assiting in this case. Smaller hospitals may be more apt to allow family to provide more support, be more involved in the labor, as well, which is why families choose to have their babies in this environment.

Sad thing is, if this type of suit makes money, we can expect to take several giant steps backwards as far as involving family as support in labor and other areas, too.

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