man holding wife still during epidural dies!

BETSRN · Jul 13, 2005

As a seasoned nurse I don't ask the family to assist with any procedure. As an RN you are solely reliable for what happens to the patient. If that fall had also caused the patient some harm then that would be another problem. There are too many people available to assist with procedures. We never know how a family member is going to respond to procedures. They do not see these things on a daily basis as we do. The CRNA should be held responsible.

I don't think that it should be assumed that there are always people available to assist (other than the nurse already working with the patient).

smk1, LPN · Jul 13, 2005

If he had been supporting the mom in the usual manner (letting her lean over on him) he would not have been able to see anything anyway.
This whole thread is getting to be ridiculous. WE are going round and round the same issues.

what is wrong with everyone debating and discussing the issue? I don't think anyone has been rude or is violating the TOS. If you find it ridiculous you can exercise your right to not participate in the thread any longer.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Jul 13, 2005

"Ridiculous" is in the eye of the beholder, but i do agree on the right to not participate lol.

Hopefully lessons are learned from what happened in this situation and rules are applies accordingly.

crystalbluern · Jul 13, 2005

I honestly think people now a days try to get money for everything....However, the biggest argument this woman has, is that the medical staffed asked for a non trained person (the husband) to help hold a patient (his wife). I think she will win, only because of that....and probably because there should have been a trained RN there.

It just occurred to me that although He may have been there to help comfort mom, as we often allow on my unit...AND the REAL ISSUE is the care he received AFTER the fall... The attorney will surely look at staffing levels in the unit at the time. This is the most troubling issue for me. We all have been there when we are "walking on water" just barely keeping up, juggling the needed care with too few staff. Our unit managers frequently tell us we have adequate staff...yeah, when the nurses keep at a dead run for 12 hours and forget breaks or meals. A sharp lawyer will also take this fact into consideration and make THAT the issue. There was not anyone available to care for the dad. Once he was injured...he was the responsibility of the health care facility.

nursedawn67, LPN · Jul 13, 2005

I think they should have asked one of the nurses to hold the wife. But I agree with the others as far as it is a very sad and unfortunate event, many people have passed out during a loved ones procedure, but they are no reason to sue.

I feel incredibly bad for the new mom to have such a joyous moment in her life turn tragic like this. :crying2:

candyndel · Jul 13, 2005

It wont be a negligence suit- it will be a civil suit. (The man was not the patient, so their was no duty.)

Just like if he slipped on a wet floor, hit his head, and died - all while in KMart- you'd sue them, too. NOW add the fact that a KMart employee (ie, agent of the hospital) had him helping wash the floor. Think about it....

i guess i see your point, however i only see negligence if an adverse outcome had happened to the actual patient. (i.e. dad wasn't holding firm and patient moved and was paralyzed or went into cardiac arrest etc..) A lot of dads faint watching procedures that are related to the childbirth process. What about a dad who faints cutting the umbilical cord? Should the family be able to sue then? My hubby almost fainted watching the crowning. (I probably would have too if i could have actually seen what was going on! :rotfl: ) In any case I think the dad in this case could have fainted whether he was touching the mom or not. I don't think the actual holding had anything to do with it, it was just the actual sight of the needle. Imho some things just fall under the category of unfortunate, but no one is really to blame. Of course this is just my opinion and I am not a nurse yet...

fp nurse · Jul 13, 2005

Just read the ap report about a woman in labor at a kaiser hospital. Apparently the anethesia professional (don't know which kind crna, mda or aa) asked the husband to help hold the wife still while the needle was inserted into the epidural space of her back and, he saw the needle going in and fainted, fell over and hit his head, suffered a fatal brain bleed and died 2 days later. Of course the wife is sueing, stating that he was asked to assist the procedure and so "reasonable" care should have been taken to prevent reasonable forseable complications/accidents. My thoughts as a simply a student, is that this is a firviolous lawsuit, and the lawyer that is encouraging her to go forth with this case should be ashamed. Also I am so saddened for this family to have such a joyous event marred and a life gone without warning. I guess to all of you L/D nurses and CRNA's etc... don't ask a family member to help hold the mom still. :uhoh21: What are your takes on this?

When i had my epidural they just had me sit on the side of the bed and hold on to bedside table, wrong i know but i was is so much pain i would have been happy with a good hit over the head with a hammer.

fergus51 · Jul 13, 2005

Just like if he slipped on a wet floor, hit his head, and died - all while in KMart- you'd sue them, too. NOW add the fact that a KMart employee (ie, agent of the hospital) had him helping wash the floor. Think about it....

I wouldn't sue them. I'm not like that.

gypsyatheart · Jul 13, 2005

It just occurred to me that although He may have been there to help comfort mom, as we often allow on my unit...AND the REAL ISSUE is the care he received AFTER the fall... The attorney will surely look at staffing levels in the unit at the time. This is the most troubling issue for me. We all have been there when we are "walking on water" just barely keeping up, juggling the needed care with too few staff. Our unit managers frequently tell us we have adequate staff...yeah, when the nurses keep at a dead run for 12 hours and forget breaks or meals. A sharp lawyer will also take this fact into consideration and make THAT the issue. There was not anyone available to care for the dad. Once he was injured...he was the responsibility of the health care facility.

I'm not sure what you mean by " There was not anyone available to care for the dad"....

Who do you think should've been caring for the dad? When I'm at work, the laboring mom is my pt., not every visitor in the room w/her. I don't know where he was seen after his collapse, but it should've been in the ER. A code would've been called and the code team would've stabilized him, and tx'd him to the ER. So I don't know if you meant the L&D staff or the ER staff. We really have no idea of what his care consisted of after his fall, other than hearsay, which I think is mostly what this case is based on.

gypsyatheart · Jul 13, 2005

It wont be a negligence suit- it will be a civil suit. (The man was not the patient, so their was no duty.)
Just like if he slipped on a wet floor, hit his head, and died - all while in KMart- you'd sue them, too. NOW add the fact that a KMart employee (ie, agent of the hospital) had him helping wash the floor. Think about it....

Again, to point out here, I think this is what is at issue....

*I do not believe anesthesia or anyone else instructed the dad to or had him "assist" w/any medical procedure. I think he was there, voluntarily, and as so many of our dads do, stood in front of his wife. Many people say "here, you can help by holding your wifes' hand or steadying her shoulders, or hugging her, etc"* That is a far cry from "assisting" w/a medical procedure!

Of course, sue happy individuals are going to present any version of the story they wish; but I just do not believe that an RN or anesthesia provider would tell a family member that they were going to be the "assistant" to a medical procedure. :uhoh21:

LydiaNN · Jul 13, 2005

Again, to point out here, I think this is what is at issue....
*I do not believe anesthesia or anyone else instructed the dad to or had him "assist" w/any medical procedure. I think he was there, voluntarily, and as so many of our dads do, stood in front of his wife. Many people say "here, you can help by holding your wifes' hand or steadying her shoulders, or hugging her, etc"* That is a far cry from "assisting" w/a medical procedure!
Of course, sue happy individuals are going to present any version of the story they wish; but I just do not believe that an RN or anesthesia provider would tell a family member that they were going to be the "assistant" to a medical procedure. :uhoh21:

But that's what candy was saying. The suit won't be based on the fact that he fainted during the medical procedure. It will be based on the fact that he slipped and fell in the hospital, period. Just like if this guy had slipped and fell in your house, he'd sue you.

sbic56, BSN, RN · Jul 14, 2005

But that's what candy was saying. The suit won't be based on the fact that he fainted during the medical procedure. It will be based on the fact that he slipped and fell in the hospital, period. Just like if this guy had slipped and fell in your house, he'd sue you.

There was no negligence in this case like there might be if someone slipped in a puddle at walmart. The guy wasn't assisting, but supporting his wife, as is common practice in labor these days. If this woman wins, we may as well get the dad's and all support persons out of the labor room, as they hit the floor fairly often and the risk that they may hurt themselves in the process, sue and win damages is too great.