man holding wife still during epidural dies!

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Just read the ap report about a woman in labor at a kaiser hospital. Apparently the anethesia professional (don't know which kind crna, mda or aa) asked the husband to help hold the wife still while the needle was inserted into the epidural space of her back and, he saw the needle going in and fainted, fell over and hit his head, suffered a fatal brain bleed and died 2 days later. Of course the wife is sueing, stating that he was asked to assist the procedure and so "reasonable" care should have been taken to prevent reasonable forseable complications/accidents. My thoughts as a simply a student, is that this is a firviolous lawsuit, and the lawyer that is encouraging her to go forth with this case should be ashamed. Also I am so saddened for this family to have such a joyous event marred and a life gone without warning. I guess to all of you L/D nurses and CRNA's etc... don't ask a family member to help hold the mom still. :uhoh21: What are your takes on this?

Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
There was no negligence in this case like there might be if someone slipped in a puddle at walmart. The guy wasn't assisting, but supporting his wife, as is common practice in labor these days. If this woman wins, we may as well get the dad's and all support persons out of the labor room, as they hit the floor fairly often and the risk that they may hurt themselves in the process, sue and win damages is too great.

Okay, once again, candy said that it wouldn't be a negligence suit. Meaning that was no negligence. Meaning that I'm unclear why that's being disputed here, since it is a point of agreement, not disagreement. It will be a civil suit. Just like Wal-Mart gets sued all the time, and yet they keep allowing people to come there and shop. You let your insurance company handle it and you move on. Whether that's way it should be or not is another matter, but at least in this state, that's the way things go when someone gets injured on someone else's property.

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Specializes in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych.
Okay, once again, candy said that it wouldn't be a negligence suit. Meaning that was no negligence. Meaning that I'm unclear why that's being disputed here, since it is a point of agreement, not disagreement. It will be a civil suit. Just like Wal-Mart gets sued all the time, and yet they keep allowing people to come there and shop. You let your insurance company handle it and you move on. Whether that's way it should be or not is another matter, but at least in this state, that's the way things go when someone gets injured on someone else's property.

Sorry about that. I was thinking if someone slipped and fell and had a viable suit there had to be a reason other than being a klutz. I am so amazed at what people will do to get money and that they actually succeed at it over and over. So yes, the civil suit is a possiblity, I suppose, but still I'd love to be around the day when no one receives compensation just because they are on someones property, so that someone must be responsible for their well being. That's the part of this whole thing that is ridiculous, as someone already pointed out.

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You gotta wonder even if the allegations don't stem from his actions during the prodcedure, but upon his care afterward, was he urged to go to the ER and refused care to be w/ his wife. We have had fainting grandparets who still refused to leave the room. Very sad, but no amt. of $ will bring him back.

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Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
Okay, once again, candy said that it wouldn't be a negligence suit. Meaning that was no negligence. Meaning that I'm unclear why that's being disputed here, since it is a point of agreement, not disagreement. It will be a civil suit. Just like Wal-Mart gets sued all the time, and yet they keep allowing people to come there and shop. You let your insurance company handle it and you move on. Whether that's way it should be or not is another matter, but at least in this state, that's the way things go when someone gets injured on someone else's property.

A negligence suit IS a civil suit. There are 2 types of legal cases: criminal and civil. To the best of my knowledge, there are no criminal charges involved here. If the wife is making a civil claim, it is most likely negligence.

To prove negligence, the plaintiff must prove 4 things: duty, breach of duty, proximate cause (that the breach of duty caused the damages), and damages. The burden of proof in a civil case is less than in a criminal case, simply a preponderence of the evidence, rather than reasonable doubt.

It seems to me that the case will hinge on whether the jury can be persuaded that the hospital staff had a duty to the father, and whether that duty was breached.

Interesting case with implications for all in nursing practice!

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Specializes in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych.

jolie...wow, you know your legalese!Thanks for the explanation. I hope we get to see how this turns out.

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I don't think it's a frivolous suit. A professional (RN) should have been holding, not dad. The nurse assigned to the mother should not have permitted dad to "help", and the anesthesia provider shouldn't have asked. Some people faint when seeing medical proceedures.

JMO

I agree with you!

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At our hospital, the only person even ALLOWED in the room is an RN. And she's the one holding the pt. All others must go out to the waiting area until anesthesia is done. PERIOD.

Some people may not think that they'll pass out when they see a medical procedure, but until they actually see it, especially when a needle is inserted into a back, there's really no telling what someone might do.

I believe that the hospital is liable in this case. They should have had an RN or other trained person hold the pt, not the husband.

This is just my opinion without knowing the particulars of this case.

The hospital I previously worked, and the one I work for now, have the same procedure for epidurals. NO one but the RN in the room for epidural placement. We encourage the support person to go get a bite to eat during the procedure. Hey they have to eat too, after all.

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Maybe you could afford then to raise your child (children even?) by yourself for 18 years and by that time college will be 50k per year.

I wouldn't sue them. I'm not like that.
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Right, we know a negligence suit is also a civil suit (obviously its not criminal), but it is not medical negligence. There was no professional duty to treat. Just like when somone asks for a 'curbside consult' and there is a poor outcome.

A negligence suit IS a civil suit. There are 2 types of legal cases: criminal and civil. To the best of my knowledge, there are no criminal charges involved here. If the wife is making a civil claim, it is most likely negligence.

To prove negligence, the plaintiff must prove 4 things: duty, breach of duty, proximate cause (that the breach of duty caused the damages), and damages. The burden of proof in a civil case is less than in a criminal case, simply a preponderence of the evidence, rather than reasonable doubt.

It seems to me that the case will hinge on whether the jury can be persuaded that the hospital staff had a duty to the father, and whether that duty was breached.

Interesting case with implications for all in nursing practice!

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Specializes in Geriatrics/Oncology/Psych/College Health.

What if the wife had wanted a cup of ice and the hubby went to get it (maybe the nurse encouraged him to) and he tripped and fell and hit his head and died (no slippery floor, just clumsiness leading to tragedy.) Would the hospital be liable for his death? Where do we draw the line?

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interesting we base our responses on the type of nursing we know, still amazed that it is done any other way. My experience in two vastly different hospitals in two areas of the country were the same. Time for an epidural? The deal is the family leaves the room...go out and touch base with other family...give them an update, go to the bathroom, go get a quick bite to eat, etc. The anesthesiologists don't like a lot of chatter or inquiries while they are placing the epidural, I don't want to field questions when I am documenting, hold the patient, coaching the patient on what to expect next, etc. I always enjoyed holding the patient in the proper position because it was an intimate "bonding" time for the nurse and patient during the height of the patient's labor discomfort. Many docs were very particular on how they wanted you to "hold" a patient, and many times they could turn a difficult stick into success due to positioning. To trust this to a layman is needlessly asking for trouble. It is the administration of anesthesia, and where else in the hospital will you see family help with the administration of anesthesia?... not in endo, the units, surgery...this is serious business. I can't recall anyone strongly objecting to not being able to watch a huge needle being stuck into the back of their loved one in between contractions.

But returning to the point of the thread, it is tragic but fainting can occur at so many points during the labor and delivery. It is no one's fault, IMO.

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Specializes in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych.
Maybe you could afford then to raise your child (children even?) by yourself for 18 years and by that time college will be 50k per year.

Being another who would not sue for something as this I have to respond. The only time I believe suits should be allowed is when there is gross negligence or wanton disregard for someone elses well being.

This is exactly the attitude of entitlement that irks me so in today's society. It's like, "I have been hurt. Somebody has to pay!!" When will it end?

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