Lpn & asn are are being phased out.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · May 16, 2016

I had a previous Bachelor's degree. It just made sense to go ahead and get my BSN, since so many of my prior courses counted towards it. I think it was a matter of one semester's difference for me. No brainer. At the time, however, there was no hiring advantage that I could see, at least as it related to getting that first job in general.

There were more than a few prior BS degree candidates in my class. I have no idea how things have changed in this regard, though.

sherri64 · May 16, 2016

I also live in the Midwest and ASN and LPN programs are going strong where I live. "Just" being an ASN isn't such a dumb idea either, if you think about it. You graduate, pass the exact same NCLEX that BSNs take, start working as an RN, and then let your employer pay part of your tuition while you take an online RN to BSN program which is still less expensive than a four year university who can charge any amount they want to for tuition because they are being funded by the government through student loans. I think that option sounds pretty smart, actually.
Also, some of the best nurses that I have ever known (I am neithe one, BTW) were LPNs and ASNs. Experience counts for much of a nurse's overall education and development of clinical skills.[/Q
I'm an ADN for over 30 years and am in OHIO. LPNs are being phased out here. Our state, so everyone is saying, wants to merge LPNs and ADNs into technical nurses and make BSNs the professional nurses. That makes me sick. At my age I am not going to sign an agreement to get my BSN in order to keep my job. New hires have to sign to get theirs within three years. That is fine if you are still in your 40s or less. The only thing I do agree with is that you have to be an STNA/CNA and work for one year before you can take the actual nursing classes and clinicals. Weeds out a lot of people who really don't want to be a nurse. They just want the paycheck.

littlespitfire · May 17, 2016

I am a U.S. trained LPN working in Michigan but living in ontario... Our local ontario hospital tried to phase out RPNs. Now they're laying off hordes of BSNs and forcing retirement to hire them back in. A hospital full of BSNs is too expensive... So the less acute units like maternity recovery, day surgery etc are using RPNs because they're cheaper. My aunt worked in Rhode island and was told she had to obtain a BSN... She went back to college in her mid 50's and just graduated this week. In the end, it's going to come down to the almighty dollar. If BSNs are going to be mandatory, pay will need to increase to compensate for more schooling. For profit companies aren't going to tolerate parting with that money for long, non profits won't be able to sustain it. LTC is shifting towards med techs slowly, and hospitals here (local to me) in Michigan are hiring med techs now too. It all will depend on the money. LPNs will be here, just like they have been, if for no other reason than we're cheaper. I don't see BSN minimum becoming mandatory nationwide in the near future.

irishstormy · May 17, 2016

I live in Chicagoland and the good hospitals require a BSN for hospital nurses. They will accept limited ASN positions in long term care. We get a slight raise when we get our BSN and much more opportunities to apply to other hospitals. I definitely see them phasing out ASNs, and we don't have LPNs with my current hospital or affiliates at all.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 17, 2016

And as far as less educational requirements allowing us to relate to our patients?

Wait, wait, NOBODY said less education requirements allow us to relate to our patients. I'm wondering how much reading comprehension you learned in that university degree.

There is NO discussion about LESS education requirements. Nobody is suggesting we create a new path to RN that requires less education.

How can we discuss this if you don't understand what was written?

applesxoranges, BSN, RN · May 17, 2016

A year ago there was a study on this message board a lot of people linked to that looked at bachelor prepared nurses in Europe and used it to justify their position without really looking at what the education actually was. Bachelors in other countries are not like the US. The US adds a lot of fluff to their curriculum and I have heard of negatives where bachelor degrees in the US were not viewed as equivalent in other countries.

My issue with the US is that we are expecting more and more education. The one way to retain higher payrolls is in fact to make your position valuable. If it is harder to find a candidate, the more the job will pay for a decent candidate.

My proposal? Get rid of the fluff in degrees and add more content to make to get a 3 year BSN to make it more similar to the European countries. It will also help with student debt. Comparing traditional BSNs to ADNs curriculum in my area, there was little difference in the core nursing classes including pre-reqs. The differences came in added classes like world religion, fine arts, languages, etc.

Now a lot of people like to argue that it makes a nurse "well-rounded." Ok, but at the cost of 200+ per credit hour? I checked a local, public university and it is 335 per credit hour excluding fees such as technology fees. So that fine art class that person is taking to learn how to draw is close to 1000 dollars. I advocate increasing the amount of nursing-specific education or even increasing the amount of science classes.

People should be well-rounded through their own activities. It cost far less to go to art classes at a local winery where you can also drink.

CanadianRN16 · May 17, 2016

A year ago there was a study on this message board a lot of people linked to that looked at bachelor prepared nurses in Europe and used it to justify their position without really looking at what the education actually was. Bachelors in other countries are not like the US. The US adds a lot of fluff to their curriculum and I have heard of negatives where bachelor degrees in the US were not viewed as equivalent in other countries.
My issue with the US is that we are expecting more and more education. The one way to retain higher payrolls is in fact to make your position valuable. If it is harder to find a candidate, the more the job will pay for a decent candidate.
My proposal? Get rid of the fluff in degrees and add more content to make to get a 3 year BSN to make it more similar to the European countries. It will also help with student debt. Comparing traditional BSNs to ADNs curriculum in my area, there was little difference in the core nursing classes including pre-reqs. The differences came in added classes like world religion, fine arts, languages, etc.
Now a lot of people like to argue that it makes a nurse "well-rounded." Ok, but at the cost of 200+ per credit hour? I checked a local, public university and it is 335 per credit hour excluding fees such as technology fees. So that fine art class that person is taking to learn how to draw is close to 1000 dollars. I advocate increasing the amount of nursing-specific education or even increasing the amount of science classes.
People should be well-rounded through their own activities. It cost far less to go to art classes at a local winery where you can also drink.

I can at least attest that that was not the case for me. My program's 'fluff' courses were all STEM classes...with room for up to 3 electives, and experience working with the community/ higher acuity clinical placements.

I used my 'fluff' electives to take courses relevant to further education like statistics, organic chemistry, and a class about indigenous peoples. Not much I can do with that, right?

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · May 17, 2016

I would love to know what hospitals in or around Philly accept ADNs for their graduate nurse program. This is Main Line Health for example:
Nurse Residency Program FAQs:
Main Line Health, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
2) What are the requirements to be eligible to apply?
Graduation from an accredited BSN (Bachelors of Science in Nursing) program or currently enrolled in a BSN program and graduating within the next few months after applying
Valid and active Nursing License for the State of Pennsylvania (all Nurse Residents are required to pass their boards prior to starting)
Minimum 2.8 GPA
(2.8? so I had a 3.7 or 3.8 in undergrad and ADN but not good enough...)

Unless you are enrolled in a BSN program, most of the large hospitals do not; you have to go with the "smaller" hospitals or the hospitals with diploma programs-think Roxborough, Chestnut Hill, Aria, even St. Mary's...

Most hospitals are contending with at least a 1:800 ratio; also one has to contend with what keywords are needed to get around the system; and the shortage is for experienced nurse, so of course they are going to get precedence in this business.

It took me about 8 months to get my first position, even though I had LPN experience-I was still considered a new grad.

Roy Hanson · May 18, 2016

why hired only BSCN or RN no idea! one still needs the experience of working with people. Bscn are supposed to be leaders, superviros, managers. But many lack the skill and expeirence.

srercg · May 18, 2016

I got an ASN - but to be quite honest- I went to school for FOUR YEARS as well - because they MAKE you take all the PREREQUISITES BEFORE you enter the ASN program (Indiana). So, ASN's really don't have THAT much less education than BSN's. In fact, with my electives I took, I have all the SAME courses under my belt as a BSN. Statistics, and healthcare trends , and all those courses I had to take as well. Definitely all the SAME science courses. WE take the exact same NCLEX whether you have an ASN or BSN, and add to that - in the end - the cost is about the same.

I went for the ASN program - good one - because I thought I'd be doing it like stepping stones - and it would cost me less up front, and be faster with less courses - NOT the case at all. I could have gotten my BSN for what I did.

BUT for LPN 's and those that remain an ASN - nursing facilities - long term care and rehab facilities - all are hiring those still - as well as agencies, and home care - there is going to be a huge turn toward home care with many baby boomers not wanting to give up their homes....only places requiring a BSN is hospitals because they are all trying to gain this "magnet" status - which honestly is nothing more than a label, and more paperwork - LOTS more paperwork. It's a business competition between hospitals that does nothing for patients.

Now I have to take an additional year to get my BSN which they require within 5 years of hire in most hospitals now, and I've looked at the courses , and NOTHING DIFFERENT that I haven't already taken. Most RN to BSN courses ADD courses you don't even need so they can make more money.

Many of the courses they tell you are requirements for these programs now are repeats of courses you've already taken, they've just slapped a different name on it to make more money on an empty classroom. I seriously could have taken ONE courses that had sociology, Psych 101 , abnormal psych, communications, and social awareness /racial and social awareness - all could have been taught in ONE course - for all the overlapping information there is in those courses - to separate them out - was just crazy (undergrad) and the social awareness they make you take separately in nursing courses. Colleges/universities are making a killing on slapping labels on programs and sticking in required classes that don't mean anything.

WheresMyPen · May 18, 2016

LPN and ASN are being phased out of magnet hospitals in my area but very much still valued in other areas. I am an LPN with lots of certifications and I am very valued and utilized in SNF but I am going back to school to have more responsibility. The higher degree does provide more opportunities but LPNS and ASN are still highly employable in many areas of nursing depending on where you live. If you want hospital, go for BSN.

HeySis, BSN, RN · May 18, 2016

Nurses cry out for respect and a seat at the table, and yet, one can become a nurse in less than 16 months.

I'm living in Utah and before entering an LPN or ASN program, you have to have all of your prerequisites complete. For most people that means they have at minimum an associates of science. Then they get to go on and do another year for LPN or two more years for the ASN. So it takes most people 4 years of college to compete their ASN, (this was most of my graduating class just this spring), and one more year to get their BSN.

As a LPN for over twenty years, it still took 5 semesters of school to get my ASN. (I've already registered for my BSN classes, figured I'm already back in the studying groove, might as well get it finished)

The LPN and ASN programs are going strong, but they are making it easier to keep going. For instance when I was in my last semester for my ADN program I could "apply" for the BSN program. It consisted of printing out an application and putting my name on it and signing it. Nothing to fill out really, no application fees, no essay's or point system, I was basically guaranteed a spot as long as I was passing my classes and continued right on.

As far as employers go, I never had a hard time finding and keeping a job as an LPN, but I did hit the roof as far as career advancement, salary and positions I could get. I use to be welcomed in beside nursing in acute care units (NY & ID) but Utah doesn't hire LPN's except in LTC and home health. The clinics run with one RN overseeing many MA's, and they may hire an LPN, but specify it will be at the MA wages.

I just graduated this April and will sit for my NCLEX next week. Most of the job listings preferred BSN and RN experience, but I was able to get hired on at the hospital in the area that I wanted, so definitely not required.

I'd much rather have an LPN administering medications and treatments for my family in LTC then MA's and med-tech's. (Although I do see a place for MA's in our new health care system). I don't think we should bash each other on any educational level, I believe that disrespect between levels of nursing does more harm to our credibility then what others from outside nursing say. Most non-medical (even just non-nursing) don't know the difference, so if they hear an RN bash an LPN all they hear is disrespect for our own profession.

Whether or not you choose to go from an LPN to ADN, or get your BSN or MSN, I think the most important part of being a nurse is to keep learning, keep current with changes and new evidence based practices.