low volume days & ed pay

Five&Two Will Do · Apr 25, 2011

I'm just 3 months into my first hospital job, but there is something done here with pay that really bothers me and I just wanted to see if it was the norm..
When you are cancelled for low census, how does your pay work?? We're forced to use 12 hrs of PTO.
What about education days? I work nights, and recently needed an education day for NRP and since I'm on orientation, I'm not authorized overtime. I was given an "ed day" which is 8 hrs of base pay. Tonight I discovered that my NM took 4.75 hrs of my PTO that day to complete my 12 hrs. And last night I was cancelled for low census... I'm am just 2 weeks off of orientation and have already lost almost 17 of my 30 hrs.
We acrue from hire date, but aren't allowed to use PTO until we've completed orientation. We get around 7 hrs/ck.
Is it just me, or is that total BS??

It is definately BS. I do not like the way most hospitals treat vacation. I work for a VA and it is completely different. We do not ever get sent home because of low census. We may float but never sent home. Also we have vacaton time and sick time and they are seperate. RN gets 8hrsAL and 4 SL per check. I never understood how a hospital can give time off, and then turn around and make you use it all up due to no fault of your own. The VA may not be as glamourous as some big teaching hospital or major trauma center, but we are treated wonderfully. Good luck to you

kcksk · Apr 25, 2011

Do you have to take the cancel? At my hospital if you are a 36hr/wk person, you are given the option of a cancel but are not forced to take it. And you have the option of taking it without using your earned time. Double check your hospital's policy on cancels and earned time.

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Apr 25, 2011

I am sure if you check you can have it unpaid if you want. If you call off then normally you have to use PTO

elkpark · Apr 25, 2011

The places that I have worked over the years have offered nurses the choice of using PTO when they get called off, or just taking the time off unpaid. They haven't just automatically taken your PTO.

rn/writer, RN · Apr 25, 2011

Where I work we handle low volume one of two ways. You can volunteer if it's not your turn. Or if no one volunteers, there's a formula to figure out whose turn it is.

With either of these situations, using PTO is voluntary. Some people would rather take the hit in the paycheck than give up vacation time they need later in the year.

I would check with payroll to see what the facility's policy is. Maybe your manager is not doing it correctly.

punkydoodlesRN, BSN, RN · Apr 25, 2011

Okay, I was trying to type that on my phone, so got a bit lazy...

When we are low census, we rotate call offs. Veteran nurses said that at one point, they allowed you to chose to take PTO or not. They did away with that some time ago and now, whether you initiate the absence or not, PTO is used.

I have two small children, so I'd MUCH rather take a hit now, then loose PTO when I might need it, especially since we have a strict absence policy!!

The more I've thought about about all of this, the more angry I've gotten. Dangit, that is my vacation/sick time and it is totally not fair for me to be penalized because our hospital doesn't have the census to keep up with staff.

By the way, I work on PPU and we don't float. I've never even been trained to another unit - we even have our own computer system.

I guess I'm the most angry that just 2 weeks out of orientation I've lost 1/2 of my PTO!! I'm going back to school in the fall and plan on staying part-time, so I really need all that I can have!!

And the education day really burned me up. We were given the option to return to the floor for the final 4.5 hrs after the class, or not. I didn't want to since I was already working the next the and my body was struggling with being awake all morning when I'd normally be asleep. Not a single word was said that we'd loose PTO if we didn't go to the floor.

I've called and left a message asking my NM to call me back and I will now be calling payroll to let them know that I do not authorize that PTO. I will also be asking about their policy because I just don't see how they can force you to use your vacation/sick pay when it's beyond your control that you're not working!!!

NoviceRN10 · Apr 25, 2011

Where I work if they cancel you, the hospital takes from your "bank" and deducts your cto account for those hours. If you ask to be cancelled, then you get zero pay. I don't know what would happen if an employee goes over their 40 hrs during orientation? I doubt they would take from your cto account.

I think your hospital policy is normal, so be careful about making a stink about it. They give employees so much cto time to cover vacation and call-offs (I get about 14 hrs a month).

punkydoodlesRN, BSN, RN · Apr 25, 2011

I think your hospital policy is normal, so be careful about making a stink about it. They give employees so much cto time to cover vacation and call-offs (I get about 14 hrs a month).

Thats about what we get, 7hrs/check... but I am JUST NOW eligible to use what I've accrued and in one pay period, I've lost over 1/2. I just don't understand how you can be forced to use your PTO at their whim. I bolded my point - Vacation and Call-offs - neither of which I did to lose my first 17 hrs of PTO. I was cancelled on Sat because we had 3 pt (had 4 last night so it was another nurse's turn to stay at home) and I had an education day last week - which is an automatic 8hr pay day.

classicdame, MSN, EdD · Apr 25, 2011

PTO is your time, not the hospital's, so without your express permission they should not automatically use it to keep your pay up. Of course, it would mean you have less pay. Another option is to orient to another dept and volunteer to work shifts elsewhere to keep pay up. I am sorry, but this has been part of nursing for a long time. Being able to work other dept. makes you more valuable to the facility as a whole and to yourself.

pinkiepie_RN · Apr 25, 2011

I think hospitals have these rules where you can't use PTO until you've been there so long to discourage call-offs and spontaneous vacation days. If you can only have so many staff on the floor for the census, they have to staff appropriately to that requirement. Sure you could stay, but eventually the ball will get back to you, even though you're new. I don't think there's anything that says you can't be cancelled with low census just because you're new, regardless of how much PTO you have. Either use the PTO you do have, or say that you'll take a day off without pay.

psu_213, BSN, RN · Apr 25, 2011

When I worked in a nursing home, you had to have 80 hrs per pay not matter what (if you were FT of course). Pay period that DST started? Docked 1 hr vacation time since you were only actually there 79 hours. Had to leave early for a family emergency? Must take sick time to take you up to 80 hrs. Etc, etc....

In the hospital, when we got "called off" you had the option of PTO or simply no pay...I believe that it defaulted to PTO unless you specified no pay. I'm not sure if FT staff could refuse a call off (most took it if they got it!). Either way, the first they cancel would be people picking up extra, per diem staff, and weekend program staff (if a weekend). Either way, this would depend on your hospital's HR policies...and I don't believe the "express permission" argument would stand up against a policy that they have in place.