low volume days & ed pay

[punkydoodlesRN]

I'm just 3 months into my first hospital job, but there is something done here with pay that really bothers me and I just wanted to see if it was the norm..

When you are cancelled for low census, how does your pay work?? We're forced to use 12 hrs of PTO.

What about education days? I work nights, and recently needed an education day for NRP and since I'm on orientation, I'm not authorized overtime. I was given an "ed day" which is 8 hrs of base pay. Tonight I discovered that my NM took 4.75 hrs of my PTO that day to complete my 12 hrs. And last night I was cancelled for low census... I'm am just 2 weeks off of orientation and have already lost almost 17 of my 30 hrs.

We acrue from hire date, but aren't allowed to use PTO until we've completed orientation. We get around 7 hrs/ck.

Is it just me, or is that total BS??

[wooh, BSN, RN]

At our work, you don't have to take the PTO if you get called off (you do if YOU call in though.) However, the person in charge of payroll will assume you want to get your pay, so she'll put you down for PTO unless you contact her and tell her you want to take the day without pay. Most people need ALL of their money, so she gets more complaints if she assumes you don't want to use your PTO than if she assumes you do. Talk to your department's payroll person to find out what the rules are and make sure you understand them before you get too angry. :)

[punkydoodlesRN, BSN, RN]

I called and spoke with our HR director and she told me that policy states that it is employees choice whether or not to use PTO when cancelled by the hospital for low census. I then explained the education day PTO. She said that no, we don't "have to have 12 hrs each day " (what my nm quoted to me) and that education day is a 8 hr pay day, period.

So, called my NM back. Asked her again why I had 16.75 PTO hrs pulled. She restated that it was hospital policy because each full-time employee is required to have 36 hrs per week, either by working or use of PTO. I was fuming mad, but nicely thanked her and hung up.

Apparently, this is how the unit has operated for quiet some time now. And the nurses all think it sucks to loose vacation/sick-time when our unit has low census (our unit doesn't participate in a float-pool) And most of our staff have other prn jobs (myself included) But all they do is gripe about it. Maybe I'm just young, and stupid, but I'm not the type of person to go along with something that seems wrong just because "it's the way it's always been"

So, Tomorrow morning, I will be in her office and again, I will give her the opportunity to correct my time and restore the 16.75 hrs of PTO that I've earned and had taken away without my consent. If she does not, I will happily march up the chain-of-command until someone listens. No more forcing us to use our PTO because we have low census!!!

ETA: I couldn't just pick up another day on the week that I had NRP because 1) it was at the end of the week and 2) it would have given me 8 hrs of OT and right now we're on an OT freeze - so it was a catch 22.

[madwife2002, BSN, RN]

I admire your bravery by making a stance very soon into your new career. A word of warning please take it very carefully and slowly when challenging your manager, she sounds very controlling and may not take it well.

[punkydoodlesRN, BSN, RN]

I admire your bravery by making a stance very soon into your new career. A word of warning please take it very carefully and slowly when challenging your manager, she sounds very controlling and may not take it well.

Thanks for advice. I'm not typically a boat-rocker, but I also don't sit back and allow things to be wrong! I will tread lightly - as she isn't a very pleasant person. Actually, she's been my manager just 2 weeks today. My hiring director was "let go" and this lady now how her original units,plus us. And not a single nurse is happy. Her attitude towards me when I let her know about my school return was really rude, and has left a bad taste in my mouth towards her managing abilities. I expect there to be mass exodus soon - myself included if this crap keeps up. I could easily and happily return to my PRN job as FT. Plus, I'm going back to school in August and only planning to work prn. Don't need her BS on top of school!!!

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

I admire your bravery by making a stance very soon into your new career. A word of warning please take it very carefully and slowly when challenging your manager, she sounds very controlling and may not take it well.

I agree...while it is nice to see someone standing up for what they think is right, I think you need to tread lightly on the manager....espically considering your "newness" on the unit. Good luck and let us know what you chose and how it went!

[Jules A, MSN]

I don't understand why you wouldn't take the money now and put it in an interest bearing account to use later if needed. I hate anyone, my employer, the IRS etc. using my money interest free.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

Personally, I'd let the past go. Just in the future, make it clear when you're called off or have an education day that you don't want to be paid.

PTO hours accrue fast enough that the few you've "lost" will be made up for quickly enough that this just isn't a fight worth having just to prove you're "right."

[punkydoodlesRN, BSN, RN]

I don't understand why you wouldn't take the money now and put it in an interest bearing account to use later if needed. I hate anyone, my employer, the IRS etc. using my money interest free.

It's not about the money. it's about having time off to take a vacation or to use if I get sick, or my children get sick. If I'm out of PTO because they've forced me to use it all during low census, I don't have the ability to call in or take any time off, not with out penalty. We're not allowed to go negative and being gone without PTO to use counts against staff - in terms of yearly raises and you are only X amt of absences before termination.

[Jules A, MSN]

It's not about the money. it's about having time off to take a vacation or to use if I get sick, or my children get sick. If I'm out of PTO because they've forced me to use it all during low census, I don't have the ability to call in or take any time off, not with out penalty. We're not allowed to go negative and being gone without PTO to use counts against staff - in terms of yearly raises and you are only X amt of absences before termination.

Are you sure? That doesn't make any sense if they are making you take it based on low census. At the very least I'd document the dates you were forced to take it. Good luck and really like others suggested think long and hard before you get into a ******* match with your new boss.

[punkydoodlesRN, BSN, RN]

Are you sure? That doesn't make any sense if they are making you take it based on low census. At the very least I'd document the dates you were forced to take it. Good luck and really like others suggested think long and hard before you get into a ******* match with your new boss.

Yup, I'm positive. I was cancelled over the weekend, because we only had 3 pt. I received my pay sheet for our next check, and next to Saturday night is LVHR: PTO12. And the week before that has PTO 4.75 ED. And at the bottom of my pay summary, I have all my hrs listed - first shift, second shift, third shift and weekend. The very last thing is PTO used this pay period:16.75

Nurses told me that yes, we are charged PTO when cancelled and that it had been that way for several years. I don't want to get in a ******* match, just simply want her following company policy. The biggest gripe is that she told me two times today that yes, we must use PTO when cancelled or calling in (which that latter part is obvious to me and a mute point!) because every full-time employee is required to have a min of 36 hrs in a pay week. Totally bogus - had the HR director verify that it is not company policy!!!! The hospital can't take away our earned time because they have a low count!! And I have a sneaking suspicion why she's enforced this for so long... but since it's just a hunch, I will keep it to myself. But I will be finding out something tomorrow. It just doesn't fly with me to have a manager enforcing a policy that doesn't exist. I may not get back my 16.75 hrs, but it dang sure won't happen again.

[Jules A, MSN]

Good luck and let us know what happens. I wonder how much of it has to do with the actual staffing allowance in the overall budget. There is some kind of thing with not using staffing hours and then the next year they could have their core staff numbers reduced.

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

First of all, let us know what happens (and why you manager is enforcing her own policy).

As I see it, you have 2 choices here:

1. Bring the written HR policy to the manager, HR, whomever and make sure you don't get docked again when they cancel you. (and possibly ??? face repercussions from your manager)

2. Do nothing, take the deductions, and not gripe about it. I don't mean to sound rude about it, but either you try and fix it or you lose you right to complain about it.