Loss of all personal freedom.

[Runnerlives]

I am just wondering but as a veteran who fought for his country. Then went to college to become a nurse. How does everyone feel about the loss of personal freedom in healthcare. Hospitals that test for legal substances in the blood (i.e. nicotine) and deny employment. Even in states that workers are protected because hospitals are " non profit" even though we all know they are for profit as you can get cause your CEO drives a jaguar. Denying employment to workers they consider obese and overweight. What are we going to do as Americans and Nurses when they test us for artificial flavorings and sugar products and deny employment. This trend will not stop. The slippery slope has begun.

[Orion81RN]

What everyone is missing here is it's the insurance companies and the government that dictates all health care. From mandatory flu shots to insurance companies passing edits down on all healthcare and there employees. Nothing but corporate greed and a bunch of upper admin like the 1st replier to this post that tow the company line with some liberal propaganda while showing the homeless from the waiting room back into the street.

Get out of here with the politics. Im liberal and agree with you. So knock it off with the liberal crap.

[canoehead, BSN, RN]

Keep in mind that if employers add too many restrictions to their staff, when they complain about a nursing shortage, it will be their own fault.

[elkpark]

What everyone is missing here is it's the insurance companies and the government that dictates all health care. From mandatory flu shots to insurance companies passing edits down on all healthcare and there employees. Nothing but corporate greed and a bunch of upper admin like the 1st replier to this post that tow the company line with some liberal propaganda while showing the homeless from the waiting room back into the street.

What on earth makes you think that "everyone" else doesn't get this? Many of us have been working in healthcare for decades, and most of us are nowhere near "upper admin" or putting homeless people out on the street. Who peed in your Cheerios??

As already stated, your personal liberties are alive and well. If you don't like the requirements and policies of a particular employer, you are entirely free to find another employer with policies you find acceptable. If healthcare in general is so distressing and contrary to your values, there are lots of other occupations with little or no requirements about employee health practices. However, employment usually involves some kind of trade-off and compromise. Best wishes!

[mushyrn, BSN, RN]

We voluntarily choose to enter a profession in which we are responsible for other people's lives -- knowing that there will be some restrictions on our behavior ...

I respectfully agree and disagree with this.

I completely understand a nurse "under the influence" (... but of what, alcohol? Caffeine? Weed? Sleep loss? Stress?) being reviewed and possibly terminated or, preferably, offered professional assistance through recovery programs.

However, these days things like marijuana are being seen for how little danger they pose, while smoking and alcohol are killing people left and right. We still let nurses and physicians drink, but not smoke, and DEFINITELY no marijuana (but it is the safest choice of all of those).

I think healthcare employers (all employers in general) need to get out of employees home and personal lives, as long as their choices do not bring issue to the workplace. If a nurse drinks or smokes marijuana (or even cigarettes) at home, I think employers should have zero say in this behavior. I am not theirs while I am off the clock, and am not being paid for my off the clock time. This is actually a slippery slope.

This is a very blurry area but employers definitely need to stay out of the personal lives of their employees. If the person comes to work and functions at 100 percent, leave them the heck alone.

Edit: I DO think people who partake in known deadly behaviors like drinking or smoking, or eating unhealthy, should pay more for their health insurance, but that's another topic.

[amzyRN]

It could be worse. I've never been drug tested for a Federally legal substance at any of my jobs and I have never been randomly tested either. Regarding immunizations, they let us wear a mask if we don't get the flu shot. I had a reaction so couldn't get mine, had to wear a mask. The salary I make with the insurance benefits outweighs these minor inconveniences for me. A lot of it is about economics. I think people in general have gotten used to privacies being stripped away, facebook sharing our data for example. It's just a small piece of a larger problem not limited to the healthcare industry. It's good to notice these things and not get bogged down in despair, find a way to channel your voice to make positive changes.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

I'm a proud Veteran and nurse also. I'm also a long-time smoker who is quitting (vaping now). Anyway, you still have the right of personal choice. You can smoke all you want. It's a free country. We fought to keep it that way. However, the employer still has some rights also. Statistically a non-smoker; costs less to insure, takes less days off, takes less breaks causing less dissention in the workplace, is more likely to be a credible role-model both for patients and new nurses....

If an employer has to choose between hiring a smoking nurse and a non-smoking nurse its a no brainer. You ain't getting hired. Its money and its business. Welcome to the 21st Century. You have a right to do whatever you want. They have a right to make sound business decisions

I think it goes a little deeper than "business", as OP has stated.

It's not nearly as free a country as it was even when I was growing up, let alone, for example, some older people I know of who lied about their age and went to work before age 16 because their families were HUNGRY. They had no SS card or number, such did not yet exist. Now, that slave number follows you from cradle to grave.

Pee tests, hair clippings to check for drugs and nicotine, fingerprints - used to be you could start work upon hire if you had a uniform with you.

No, we are not nearly as free as you might think. Cameras everywhere, thumbprints, retinal scans. Who thinks all of this is good? Yes, some good comes of it and yes, some safeguards are necessary. But how did we get by without all of these things?

[quiltynurse56, LPN, LVN]

Wait a minute, a veteran is complaining about a loss of personal freedoms in the nursing field? Wasn't there a lot of that in the military>

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

What everyone is missing here is it's the insurance companies and the government that dictates all health care.

Pretty sure that most people on here realize that this is the case. I am not a fan of the insurance companies strangle hold on things, but do you have a better solution? Should everyone who wants to be in skilled nursing have the right to be there? Does a family that thinks their dad would benefit from inpatient rehab (IPR) be able to place their dad in IPR, no questions asked?

Also, how does mandatory flu shots related to hospital and insurance company greed? I know that this is a hot button topic on AN, but I am skeptical of a link between government/insurance company/hospital greed and mandatory flu shots.

[SpankedInPittsburgh, DNP, RN]

Once again this isn't an argument about personal liberties. Nobody is stopping the OP from smoking. Its a personal choice. Its about economics. In fact the OP makes an odd derision of liberals in his post. What could be more liberal than a sort of twisted affirmative action program for smokers and demanding that some third party subsidize his more expensive health insurance related to a poor personal health choice? This is especially true when you are hiring a nurse who statistically be a less valuable (and more stinky) member of your workforce. This isn't about his political values its about somebody's Ox getting gored.

Here's an actual conservative value for you. The marketplace will determine if employers can continue to stop hiring smokers. If a hospital cannot fill all its nursing needs with non-smokers then they will have to reconsider due to the dictates of the marketplace. A person's right to liberty doesn't mean another party should have be forced to subsidize their lousy choices. Furthermore other nurses shouldn't be compelled to work with somebody who smells like an ashtray and is always asking for a break because they need a smoke to satisfy their addiction.

[/username, BSN, RN]

If your going to make trolling ****posts, could you at least try to be creative and not completely obvious?

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

Being employed is lack of personal freedom. They pay us, they own us.

By the way... A jaguar is a piece of junk.

[applewhitern, BSN, RN]

I, too, understood it was mostly because of insurance companies requirements.