Loss of all personal freedom.

[Runnerlives]

I am just wondering but as a veteran who fought for his country. Then went to college to become a nurse. How does everyone feel about the loss of personal freedom in healthcare. Hospitals that test for legal substances in the blood (i.e. nicotine) and deny employment. Even in states that workers are protected because hospitals are " non profit" even though we all know they are for profit as you can get cause your CEO drives a jaguar. Denying employment to workers they consider obese and overweight. What are we going to do as Americans and Nurses when they test us for artificial flavorings and sugar products and deny employment. This trend will not stop. The slippery slope has begun.

[K9lover, ASN, RN]

We don't sacrifice "all personal freedom" when we enter health care. We voluntarily choose to enter a profession in which we are responsible for other people's lives -- knowing that there will be some restrictions on our behavior in order to be worthy of the public's trust. There is a difference.

The employer is free to establish the standards for their staff. If you don't want to meet those standards, you are free to work somewhere else.

So you are saying that piece of nicotine gum in my cheek will somehow compromise my ability to practice in a safe fashion?

[ClaraRedheart, BSN, RN]

I had a sweet little old lady patient tell me once "I wanted to be a nurse, but I met a man and fell in love with him". The fact that she dared to love and marry her husband of 60+ years put the kibash on her nursing aspirations. We are TRULY blessed these days.

It's my firm belief that if you are going to teach patients how to be healthy, you need to live it. Also, that an employer has the right whether or not to hire and keep you as an employee and if you agree by their terms, you should be bound to them. If you are a nurse who smokes, find an employer who allows it. It's that simple. It's the same argument I've had against marijuana use. When used without inhaling plant ash, it's probably harmless.. but to put your own personal enjoyment ahead of your ability to care for yourself and your family (since it's illegal and can get you FIRED) is downright selfish. Same with tobacco. If you value your habit over your career, then maybe you should re-evaluate your priorities.

[Mary3010]

I could be wrong here but the way I see it is to give an analogy to something that a lot of people are probably all familiar with. Whilst students are attending schools, they are required to abide by various rules e.g wearing a dress code etc. However, within your personal life you have freedom to do as you will and to not follow this rule.

This is similar to the workplace (not just healthcare but a lot of other professions I would imagine). This is just my understanding so I'm sorry if I'm wrong. Workers are to adhere to the various rules that are governed by that workplace. For instance, you can drink all you want outside of work but to be drunk and be working as a nurse can be so detrimental to patients. Also I guess you sort of have to act differently when working. You have to be professional at work so that patients trust you etc. whereas outside of work you can act as relaxed as you may.

[Amethya]

What on earth makes you think that "everyone" else doesn't get this? Many of us have been working in healthcare for decades, and most of us are nowhere near "upper admin" or putting homeless people out on the street. Who peed in your Cheerios??

As already stated, your personal liberties are alive and well. If you don't like the requirements and policies of a particular employer, you are entirely free to find another employer with policies you find acceptable. If healthcare in general is so distressing and contrary to your values, there are lots of other occupations with little or no requirements about employee health practices. However, employment usually involves some kind of trade-off and compromise. Best wishes!

I'm sorry, but I love that statement of "Who Peed in your cheerios". xD

That made my day.

[Amethya]

I had the luck of find jobs without worrying about my appearance. I'm Hispanic, chubby and 27/f. If a job doesn't want me for my skills but my looks, then I'm looking elsewhere, because that's not the job for me. As for drugs, I only had to do 1 drug test in my whole career and that was when I first went to my internship, that's it. I never had to do it again and I honestly do not care because I don't do drugs, so hey I'll pee for them if they need me to.

But insurances? I do worry about the state of our country and how we do healthcare here. Especially for the people who can't afford insurance, it's a difficult thing.

[Oldmahubbard]

Apparently there is an over-abundant supply of nurses, in that they can refuse employment to smokers, who are less desirable employees on several counts.

If you keep looking, you will eventually find an employer who will accept you as a smoker.

The whole thing does seem rather "big-brother-ish", and I can see it from both sides.

I think the whole thing is just supply and demand, and market forces.

There was a time when a visible tattoo would preclude a person from professional employment. Can you imagine it now?

I remember the more innocent days of bring your license, show up and work that day. Now it is fingerprints, a 3 month long background checks and urine screens.

A few people made that necessary.

The world has officially changed while I wasn't looking.

[llg, PhD, RN]

You have an agenda. Therefore I feel honest answers aren't really being sought here, but rather a platform on which to launch your own voice. The whole world is screaming these days. I am tired of listening to be honest. This issue isn't the black and white framework you are implying.

I am sorry you are unhappy. I hope it gets better.

I wanted to "like" this post a million times -- but that's not possible. So I am quoting it and saying that I think it is perhaps the best post I have ever read.

Thank you!

[llg, PhD, RN]

I respectfully agree and disagree with this.

I appreciate your approach to this discussion. It's a complicated issue and there are many aspects of the topic that are not clear cut. I don't totally disagree with you. Employees' behavior while not at work is (in my opinion) in a gray area -- usually none of the employers' business. But when it has implications for the employer, then it is not so clear-cut.

[llg, PhD, RN]

So when all employees in this country have to be female 20 to 30 year olds and weight 125lbs with blonde hair and blue eyes cause it's apealin to the person doing the hiring and it looks professional. Your good with that?

For some jobs, such limitations are reasonable. For example -- the job of playing a Disney princess at one of their theme parks. An old fat guy (or old fat woman like me) needs to accept the fact that we are not a good match for that particular job.

[llg, PhD, RN]

So you are saying that piece of nicotine gum in my cheek will somehow compromise my ability to practice in a safe fashion?

No, I never said that. You are extrapolating my words to an extreme point of exaggeration.

Not all of the employer's standards need to be directly related to the patients' immediate safety -- and I never said that they did. The employer is free to maintain other standards as well. And potential employees are free to choose whether or not they are willing to comply with those standards for the sake of having that particular job.

[AnnieOaklyRN, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

Well I haven't noticed any smokers apologizing to me for my loss of freedom of good health and wellbeing, as they smoke 2 feet in front of the door to businesses, so no, no concern here for smokers.

[chacha82, ADN, BSN]

Thank you for being a veteran. I'm not being snarky at all; I dearly appreciate your service to our country.

I know of only one facility that will not hire smokers. Quit if you really want to work at that hospital. Otherwise work somewhere else.

I think the comments about needing to be a thin, blonde-haired blue-eyed nurse are an exaggeration. We actually don't have a single nurse on staff right now that fits that description.