Loss of all personal freedom.

CelticGoddess, BSN, RN · May 9, 2018

My mentor told me about a doctor that she met recently. When he was in high school he used to just put on scrubs and walk into Parkland ER and pass as an intern. He would do grunt work and stitches even. Can you imagine!?!?

My first thought was "why would anyone do that for free?

Orion81RN · May 9, 2018

Wait a minute, a veteran is complaining about a loss of personal freedoms in the nursing field? Wasn't there a lot of that in the military>

OMG You are so right. This should have been glaringly obvious to me. That's pretty hilarious.

Orion81RN · May 9, 2018

You lost me at the title. Loss of ALL personal freedom. That's HARDLY the case here. Then the OP throws in the liberal "insult", as if a political stance has any bearing on this discussion.
Sure we have some restrictions in places that I do not agree with, but there are plenty of freedoms we have now that we didn't before. It's up to US to decide what is something we will tolerate and what isn't. If you don't agree with a particular hiring requirement for a facility - it's pretty simple to me DON'T WORK THERE. If enough people disagree with the policy it will be rescinded.
At my current full time employer you pay A LOT more for your insurance if you smoke, you a pay a small amount more if you are overweight, if your have HTN, diabetes, etc - and you aren't making changes to improve your health. I don't smoke, I don't have HTN, diabetes or any of the other standards, but I am considered overweight by my BMI. I am making changes to improve my health. I don't consider it to be some great detriment to me. Darn my employer for being part of the process to hold me accountable for being healthy.. How dare they!
I did disagree with many of the policies at my former employer. So I left. And guess what.. so did many others. Now some of those policies have been changed. I still won't go back because I really like what I currently do, but the process still worked.
I try to address problems when I see them. If I've tried and it's going no where I decide if it is really a battle I'm willing to quit over. If it is.. I talk with my feet. If not I keep trying to make the change or accept it and move on.

This! ^^^Well stated.

Guest219794 · May 9, 2018

What everyone is missing here is it's the insurance companies and the government that dictates all health care. From mandatory flu shots to insurance companies passing edits down on all healthcare and there employees. Nothing but corporate greed and a bunch of upper admin like the 1st replier to this post that tow the company line with some liberal propaganda while showing the homeless from the waiting room back into the street.

You reference this post, and accuse the poster of being liberal:

"I guess it would depend on my perspective at any given moment. I'd love to be free to do whatever I'd like as an employee, but doesn't "personal freedom" apply to the people doing the hiring, too?"

This is odd, as the position advocated is actually quite conservative. The idea that an employer should be free to hire as he/she wants free from government regulation is a pillar of modern conservatism.

On the other hand, you rail against corporate greed, excessive executive compensation, and inadequate services for the homeless. That is, in fact a very liberal position.

Is it possible you got your terminology backwards?

Or, was this some clever bit of irony I am missing after a 12 1/2 hr shift and nearly 2 hrs of driving?

Regarding the facility you mention that shows "homeless from the waiting room back into the street." As you probably know, this is a gross EMTALA violation, and you have an ethical obligation to report it. Have you?

osceteacher · May 9, 2018

Its dem Liberuls what does it!

Nice strawman you're building, must be hardwork.

Editorial Team / Moderator · May 9, 2018

You have an agenda. Therefore I feel honest answers aren't really being sought here, but rather a platform on which to launch your own voice. The whole world is screaming these days. I am tired of listening to be honest. This issue isn't the black and white framework you are implying.
I am sorry you are unhappy. I hope it gets better.

I have never loved you more! You described my weariness perfectly.

allnurses Guide · May 9, 2018

It's a very interesting debate, both the topic at hand and the use use of "liberal" as part of the argument (which in the OP case is rather ironic).

The economics of the issue are quite interesting. A relatively recent estimate of the cost to employ a smoker over a non-smoker was about $6000/yr. This cost to the employer most definitely subsidized by both the employees and the consumers in a typical marketplace, however, with relatively fixed reimbursement rates in healthcare, I think a reasonable argument could be made that the employees are subsidizing most of that cost.

I've never seen any data on it, but I would guess that most people would agree in principle that employers should not discriminate in hiring based on legal, personal lifestyle choices. However, when you give people a choice between that principle and a $6000/yr raise (or worse, paycut) they would quickly become less principled (if they are a non-smoker). On the other side, if you were a smoker would you be willing to do the same job for $6000/yr less?

From a big corporate perspective, there was also recently data published suggesting that a 5% reduction in smoking prevalence in employees would result in a nationwide savings of $60 million in healthcare costs, $332 million in absenteeism, and $117 million in productivity. This would mean higher wages and reduced cost to consumers nationwide.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · May 9, 2018

I'm apparently in the minority because I agree with you that there is too much micromanagement and privacy invasion in nursing. Things didn't use to be this way. Back when I first started nursing no one was drug tested for a job nor did the board question applicants' medical or mental health background. Flu shots weren't mandatory. Many here self riteously state it's your choice to work as a nurse so you need to accept these invasions of privacy or find another job. Frankly I think that is just sad. Why are nurses presumed guilty and required to submit to urine and hair samples to prove you are not a druggie? Why are so many nurses forced into "recovery" programs if they have a mental health illness?

All this concern is justified for patient safety, while the majority of nurses are working with unsafe patient ratios, short staffed, and cajoled to work overtime as a staffing strategy. Never mind that many of these nurses don't get enough sleep and either feel coerced by their "duty" to pick up extra hours to help the unit or are simply mandated to work 16 hours because they are too important to go home. Where is the concern over patient safety here? The very structure and staffing at many hospitals and nursing homes is frankly unsafe. It's a miracle there aren't more nursing errors under the circumstances. Also the stressful nature of nursing coupled with the short staffing aggravates anxiety and depression in many nurses.

If administration really cared about safety they would hire enough nurses to staff appropriately in the first place eliminating short staffing and mandatory overtime. There would be low patient ratios. It wouldn't take an act of Congress to get safe needles like it did or the state of CA to get safe patient ratios.

I'm simply glad I'm nearing retirement and won't have to deal with this much longer. Flame away! lol

elkpark · May 9, 2018

Many here self riteously state it's your choice to work as a nurse so you need to accept these invasions of privacy or find another job. Frankly I think that is just sad.

Like it or not, it is a simple fact that the entire point of professions and occupations that require state licensure is that those professions and occupations involve a larger responsibility to the general public than other kinds of jobs, and people in those professions and occupations are held to a higher standard of conduct and responsibility than the general public. People who choose to enter licensed professions are choosing to take on that larger responsibility and accountability to the general society and to give up some privacy and some other rights that they would otherwise enjoy. I'm surprised at how many nurses I encounter that don't seem to get that, and seem to want to be able to "have their cake and eat it, too." If the trade-off is unacceptable, there are plenty of other kinds of work people can do.

Editorial Team / Moderator · May 9, 2018

All this concern is justified for patient safety, while the majority of nurses are working with unsafe patient ratios, short staffed, and cajoled to work overtime as a staffing strategy. Never mind that many of these nurses don't get enough sleep and either feel coerced by their "duty" to pick up extra hours to help the unit or are simply mandated to work 16 hours because they are too important to go home. Where is the concern over patient safety here? The very structure and staffing at many hospitals and nursing homes is frankly unsafe. It's a miracle there aren't more nursing errors under the circumstances. Also the stressful nature of nursing coupled with the short staffing aggravates anxiety and depression in many nurses.

You have an excellent point. There is often this "safety" talk out of both sides of the corporate mouth, right?

It reminds me of the meme with the glass ampule. It says "safety first!" then "now break this glass with your hands!"

allnurses Guide · May 9, 2018

The OP has never returned. This was a successful troll.

/username, BSN, RN · May 9, 2018

in b4 closed by admin.