Boarding - two 16yr old girls going to Paris in a party via train with 18 boys. Usual result is 16 disappointed boys, and two distraught girls.
Girl A is going out with Boy A who is celebrating his 18th. Girl B is best friend of Girl A, and this will be her first trip away.
My role - nurse, but also parent in 'loco-parentis'
I know students very well. I know the hurt that often happens on trip. I know parents usually have no idea what goes on during such trips. These trips happen every year, and I'm left to pick up the pieces, whether it be intoxicated/drugged kid in ICU, head injury, or some other nasty surprise.
I call parents of girl A to make sure they are aware daughter is with 18 boys. Rationale, I'm a parent and I know my father would never have let my sister go on such a trip. Also figuring out my role as i'm considered a nurse and a parent.
What do I do, - I call father of girl A who gets angry, tells me off, says he trusts his daughter. Due to the angry reaction, I don't call the parents of Girl B
Result - girl B and girl A are in my office on monday morning, trying to figure out if girl B has been raped.
Boyfriend of girl A had a best friend who booked a room in hotel forhimself as well as girl B, and girl B felt she had to share a room/bed with him because she had left the booking up to the boys, and along with alcohol, eventually consented, but now not so sure.
It's not always easy figuring out what the best thing too do.
OP, maybe all that time you spent lecturing young men about the evils of Media would have been better spent talking about consent and how no woman ever owes them sex for any reason.
Maybe they learned that women always want sex and that no discussion of consent is necessary from watching Media as their sex education.
Do you know how offensive you sound? "Good people" don't go around raping others. It's not a simple mistake. I'm just astonished that you rant against the evils of marijuana or Media, yet you whitewash and make excuses for this crime.
Oh stop it. Why is it that drunk boys who misread signals or are victims of morning after regret can be prosecuted, but girls somehow have no responsibility for things they do while drunk? I'm so sick of the double standard.
Oh stop it. Why is it that drunk boys who misread signals or are victims of morning after regret can be prosecuted, but girls somehow have no responsibility for things they do while drunk? I'm so sick of the double standard.
We don't know what really happen in nursingaround's crazy story, so it might be a little premature to be deciding if a rape occurred. I just pointed out that "good people" don't commit rape. Alcohol or hormones are no excuse for this, no matter how drunk the victim is. But I do love how you victim blame. Let me guess...you feel that a lady who has a few two many drinks while wearing a miniskirt and gets raped while walking home is partial responsible? Sorry that is absurd.
Oh stop it. Why is it that drunk boys who misread signals or are victims of morning after regret can be prosecuted, but girls somehow have no responsibility for things they do while drunk? I'm so sick of the double standard.
(my bold)
I'm not sure what double standard you're talking about. Prosecution normally follows the commission of a criminal act. A crime is normally what it takes to be prosecuted, I've never encountered a case where someone was prosecuted for morning after regret alone. Anyway, I haven't seen anyone in this thread imply and I doubt that anyone thinks, that women should be immune from prosecution if they commit a crime just because the woman happened to be under the influence of alcohol when she committed the crime.
I don't think that "morning after regret" relieves either gender of responsibility if they've committed a crime. The only difference in my mind is that I find criminal offenders capable of genuine remorse or regret (for the pain they've caused their victim), more sympathetic than the ones who genuinely don't give a darn about the person they've hurt.
Investigating sexual assault/rape charges with no witnesses when both parties (or all in cases where there were more than two people involved) were intoxicated is notoriously difficult. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's often a legal nightmare.
The law in most civilized countries recognizes that either person can withdraw consent at any time during the flirting or seduction phase, during foreplay or during the sex act or intercourse itself. It doesn't matter what has transpired before that.
Having sex with someone who resists (unless that's part of some mutually agreed upon plan), or having sex with someone who says "no" or "stop" usually counts as rape. As does having sex with someone who's passed out drunk and can't really consent to anything (and any reasonable person can also deduce that the passed out person's chance of enjoying or appreciating the whole experience is slim).
If one party agrees to sex under the influence of alcohol (or drugs), and later (after the fact) regrets having done so it wouldn't normally be considered a sexual assault or a rape. However, if one party is under the legal drinking age and the other (older) party supplies the alcohol with a plan to make the person more amenable to his or her sexual advances and to make the person lose her or his inhibitions, it may well be considered a crime in some jurisdictions. The law very often focuses on intent.
If a person who hasn't been drugged/threatened/coerced consents to sex and then has regrets the next day and then lies and claims that the sex wasn't consentual and files a complaint with the police, then that person is the one committing a crime.
Just to be very clear: no person ever, male or female, deserve to be the victims of crime just because they got themselves drunk/intoxicated. The responsibility falls squarely on the perpetrator. That said, I've often advised young persons (and some not so young), to not get completely blasted since remaining somewhat sober and keeping your wits about you is simply a good method of self-defense.
Just to be very clear: no person ever, male or female, deserve to be the victims of crime just because they got themselves drunk/intoxicated. The responsibility falls squarely on the perpetrator. That said, I've often advised young persons (and some not so young), to not get completely blasted since remaining somewhat sober and keeping your wits about you is simply a good method of self-defense.
(Absolutely every bit of your post was worth quoting, but I wanted to make sure that what I was responding to was evident. Your post should be printed and taped to every bar bathroom stall and college dormitory.)
About the not getting blasted, I think what is bothering me culturally right now is that the idea of placing even the slightest ounce of accountability on the victim is now "victim blaming". I am not a victim blamer. There is absolutely no excuse for violent or sex crimes to exist, regardless of the way the victim dresses or behaves.
It's like this - I live in a college town, and a couple of specific areas have high volumes of student pedestrians. There are marked cross walks, and in my state, it is very clear - drivers MUST stop for pedestrians in marked cross walks. But somehow this takes away all accountability from the pedestrian. Why don't people look both ways first anymore? They simply see the stripes on the road, and walk right in, with absolutely no regard whatsoever to how hard breaks need to be slammed to keep from killing them right there on the street. Yes, it's my responsibility to stop, and I will, because it's the right thing to do. But if I can't stop my car in time, we BOTH will feel that impact for the rest of our lives. Why not just stop and look both ways?
All that to say..... I was raised by grandpa, who taught me personal responsibility and right from wrong. He did a damn good job of it, I believe, although there were times I didn't do my best to listen, especially in my teen years. As you say in this last part of your post, it just makes sense to not get blasted drunk. If you are not surrounded by people you know and trust, if you don't have a buddy there with a system of keeping an eye out for one another, if you don't protect yourself, YOU are the one who will live with that for the rest of your life. YOU are the one who will face the **** shaming of trials and media, the character attacks of lawyers, the PTSD that goes with sexual trauma. YOU will live with the consequences that will affect and hurt you far deeper and far longer than the perpetrator will.
This is in no way victim blaming by any means. This is my PSA to say teach your kids this stuff. If a sexual assault occurs, no it is not the victim's FAULT. But being the victim of a "date rape", I know exactly where *I* went wrong. I obsessed over it. I do wish I'd protected myself better. I'll never tell a person they should act a certain way or dress a certain way to prevent the lusting of others. That's insulting to men AND women. But I do believe we should protect ourselves when we can and that doesn't feel like victim blaming to me. It feels like common sense. Don't be out of control drunk. Don't go down dark alleys with people you don't know. You have to protect yourself. I feel like this has been lost somewhere in the back swing of the victim blaming pendulum and people are afraid to say it.
I apologize if this has offended in any way. It's just been brewing in these topics where rape and sexual assault is discussed and people say victim blaming in relation to suggesting a person take measures to protect themselves and prevent assault from happening to them.
Depends on whichever tale he's entertaining us with. He's a nurse, sex education instructor, police detective. Kind of like career Barbie---he's done it all!!
@nursingaround, I do not understand what your role is, is it to ensure adolescents receive sexual health education?
While it's clear OP that you have had some interesting experiences during your nursing career, I have to wonder why all of your posts contain sexual references? Just seems a little odd.
Just to be very clear: no person ever, male or female, deserve to be the victims of crime just because they got themselves drunk/intoxicated. The responsibility falls squarely on the perpetrator. That said, I've often advised young persons (and some not so young), to not get completely blasted since remaining somewhat sober and keeping your wits about you is simply a good method of self-defense.
While it's clear OP that you have had some interesting experiences during your nursing career, I have to wonder why all of your posts contain sexual references? Just seems a little odd.
Just to be very clear: no person ever, male or female, deserve to be the victims of crime just because they got themselves drunk/intoxicated. The responsibility falls squarely on the perpetrator. That said, I've often advised young persons (and some not so young), to not get completely blasted since remaining somewhat sober and keeping your wits about you is simply a good method of self-defense.
Very well said. In my state, a drunk or drugged person cannot legally give consent. If you've seen my responses in a previous thread, I am a school nurse and certified sex educator, and I taught about this. If you are sober and someone you like is under the influence and says yes, they may not actually mean yes and there could be legal consequences.
We also talk about drugs and drinking as a "Can increase the risk of" behavior when it comes to STI transmission and pregnancy. If someone is not certain of their actions when drunk and believes they may regret a choice made under the influence, they may want to abstain from drinking, especially in situations where there may be several people they are unfamiliar with.
That being said, this OP certainly likes to talk about sex and students a lot. While I do teach sex ed, most of my day at school with students is spent on non-sex related issues.
(On a side note, I do NOT do rape kits at school. Nope, nope, nope. If the student is willing, it is a call to the local PD, a trip to the ED, and a call to their parents.)
I just asked this on another thread, but is the OP actively employed at this boarding school? Is this a recent story?
I'm asking because these tales seem reminiscent of a bad movie-of-the-week, playing on stereotypes and possibly scandalous scenarios. Like a Harlequin that turned left at romance and veered into Weird Territory.
I think we are being played at this point, honestly. Something really just feels "off" to me about all these threads.
Hmn... These seems to be fictional stories... It just doesn't seem very realistic. You should stick to writing about your concerns/obstacles regarding nursing so we all can advise/opinionate to help you. We cant really do much for you with these stories...
Red Kryptonite
2,212 Posts
Maybe they learned that women always want sex and that no discussion of consent is necessary from watching Media as their sex education.