Loco-Parentis

nursingaround1 · Jun 21, 2015

OP, maybe all that time you spent lecturing young men about the evils of Media would have been better spent talking about consent and how no woman ever owes them sex for any reason. Although I shudder to think what that conversation would look like, considering all your excuses about how boys mixed with alcohol and hormones can lead to sexual assault... but apparently the boys committing said assaults aren't "bad"? Here's a hint, in any country (since you make everything about the USA vs the rest of the world), rapists are bad people. The end. Full stop. Having sex with a girl who is too drunk to consent to sex is rape.

It sounds black and white. But what happens when they're both drunk, and neither can remember what exactly happened, or the events leading up to the event? You're trying to tell me only bad people do bad things. But good people make bad decisions, when alcohol and hormones get mixed up, regardless of age, but especially with teenagers when their hormones are at times out of control.

Miss Rayanne · Jun 21, 2015

If you're in any situation where you come across a potential rape victim, you should contact the authorities immediately. At this point, it's out of your league. If it's recent, a nurse's goal would be to assess and treat any possible injuries, preserve evidence until it can be taken (encourage the victim to not take a shower, wash up, etc)

It's not your role to determine the guilt or innocent of whomever was accused of this. Leave that one to the prosecutor.

blondy2061h, MSN, RN · Jun 21, 2015

So for those of us following along at home, I just want to make sure I have your rÃ©sumÃ© down:

1. New Zealand- Gynecological Ward Nurse

2. UK- Pediatric/adolescent psychology

3. France- School nurse

4. Some job where you have to put in a lot of female foleys, which I'm hoping isn't psych or school.

5. Maybe a job in the U.S. if you can adjust to our strange customs?!

Miss Rayanne · Jun 21, 2015

It sounds black and white. But what happens when they're both drunk, and neither can remember what exactly happened, or the events leading up to the event? You're trying to tell me only bad people do bad things. But good people make bad decisions, when alcohol and hormones get mixed up, regardless of age, but especially with teenagers when their hormones are at times out of control.

Do you know how offensive you sound? "Good people" don't go around raping others. It's not a simple mistake. I'm just astonished that you rant against the evils of marijuana or Media, yet you whitewash and make excuses for this crime.

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Jun 21, 2015

it's a boarding school. The parents sign them off for the weekend, out of our control, then I see them on monday, and pick up the pieces.

Then that is what you do.

What parents choose or not choose to do as far as permitting their children to be out of the school for the weekend is not your concern. What the kids do or don't do for the weekend, again, not your concern. They are signed out of the school in which you are the nurse. Therefore, you do not have responsibility. What the administration of the school does or doesn't do with "offending" kids is entirely up to them.

What would be of concern is to be sure that you have firm policies in place for the exact procedures involved in what you need to do specifically when child comes back to school and has been involved in any sort of trauma, ETOH related incident, or other over the weekend, and come to you on Monday for treatment. This could happen in the south of France, in the dorm, or their own backyard. I would partner with the school counselor. I would have on hand a list of references as far as a police contact (and most departments have a youth officer) rape crisis center, dare I say a planned parenthood, and SANE nurse. The kids should be taught that if an incident happens, who they are to go to AT the TIME, however, some will choose not to, and that's OK, you just need to be prepared as a SCHOOL, as opposed to just you.

These are not your children. What you would and/or would not do with your own children is a non-issue. You can not and should not be crossing professional boundaries, calling parents regarding their own decisions regarding their children, getting involved in any way than your job during your working hours. And with the information and references you have on hand. With a team--It is not your decision to make, nor your position to decide what parents can and can not give their kids permission to do. If the school has a problem with this, then perhaps they would like to prohibit out of country trips for weekend passes. Which for tuition payers, they will more than likely not do.

Now that you know that off campus passes that are parental approved can result in issues come Monday, now is the time to create a plan of action. Create a crisis team. There may be parents who would like to be involved in this process. Input can be given via conference calls at your meetings from as many parents as who would like to be involved. Trauma nurses, police, counselors...all good input to create a plan going forward.

This is a team sport. You, as a nurse, are not the moral police. You need to take the information that is presented to you come Monday, and use your resources. It is not up to you to decide what parents do with their own kids. The positive outcome of this situation would be going forward, have a group, enact a plan and follow it.

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Jun 21, 2015

Did I do wrong in phoning the parents of Girl A even though I meant well? I brought in my values, the way my parents would behave. In this situation I'm a nurse and a parent to the students, which makes it more complicated.

BUT, you are NOT a parent to the student. Again, YOU ARE NOT A PARENT to these students. Your values have absolutely NOTHING to do with it. What you would do has NOTHING to do with it. What your parents would do has NOTHING to do with it.

The bottom line is that you are using your position to push your agenda. Which is unethical and wrong.

There is a term used in therapy that you may find relevant in every scenario you have described in your various threads: negative countertransference. It may behoove you to explore that in your own life, to perhaps have it aid your practice going forward.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sacramento-street-psychiatry/201003/countertransference-overview

canigraduate · Jun 21, 2015

BUT, you are NOT a parent to the student. Again, YOU ARE NOT A PARENT to these students. Your values have absolutely NOTHING to do with it. What you would do has NOTHING to do with it. What your parents would do has NOTHING to do with it.
The bottom line is that you are using your position to push your agenda. Which is unethical and wrong.
There is a term used in therapy that you may find relevant in every scenario you have described in your various threads: negative countertransference. It may behoove you to explore that in your own life, to perhaps have it aid your practice going forward.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sacramento-street-psychiatry/201003/countertransference-overview

I'm crushing on you a little because you used behoove in a sentence.

That's so awesome.

canigraduate · Jun 21, 2015

It sounds black and white. But what happens when they're both drunk, and neither can remember what exactly happened, or the events leading up to the event? You're trying to tell me only bad people do bad things. But good people make bad decisions, when alcohol and hormones get mixed up, regardless of age, but especially with teenagers when their hormones are at times out of control.

Here in the U.S. we have a term, "mandated reporter." There are certain professions that are required to report suspicious activity to the authorities to be investigated. Nursing is one of them. We do not judge, we do not investigate. I think you could benefit from this mindset.

You are not these children's parents, their guardian, nor their therapist.

It sounds like you are trying to get us to justify what you are doing.

NOT GONNA HAPPEN. You should work on your professional boundaries.

ktwlpn, LPN · Jun 21, 2015

What amazes me, is I share some real life experiences, some of the really difficult ones, and that's your response.

You have tasted the water in this well and found it bitter...So STOP drinking it.Due to apparent cultural differences and your difficulty expressing your thoughts maybe you should just take a break,sit back and read through some of the threads and study the typical communication style.....

ixchel · Jun 21, 2015

OP, I read a bit about loco parentis. I think you need to familiarize yourself with local loco parentis laws and perhaps you will find more info there.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Jun 21, 2015

What do you mean, what is your role? Are you really serious? If you have a girl in your office who believes she might have been rape, call the police. She needs to go to the ER and have a rape kit done on her. You're a school nurse and you don't know that?
Personally, I think you are trying to wind us up.

This is the crux of the matter. Kind of scary that a school nurse doesn't know this, especially one who seems to have a strong hero complex.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Jun 21, 2015

So for those of us following along at home, I just want to make sure I have your rÃ©sumÃ© down:
1. New Zealand- Gynecological Ward Nurse
2. UK- Pediatric/adolescent psychology
3. France- School nurse
4. Some job where you have to put in a lot of female foleys, which I'm hoping isn't psych or school.
5. Maybe a job in the U.S. if you can adjust to our strange customs?!

Got up at 5:30 am to drive to my favorite bike trail for a 1.5 hour ride, only to encounter torrential rain. Dang. But came home to read this thread, so I feel like my morning wasn't totally wasted. Entertaining read, this.