Karen MD started YouTube channel to bash nurses and NP

Benzodiazepine · Jan 15, 2023

Techs call out lazy nurses all the time. And do say they could do a better job LOL. It's just not put out there like the conflict between docs and NPs. But please show me which video you are referring to when you say the doctors in this channel are creating these videos due to the claim that NPs consider themselves equal.

Benzodiazepine · Jan 15, 2023

Who exactly makes claims that NPs are equal to physicians? I have met many NPs and never heard anyone say it.

"When you're working your hardest for patients PG, thinking critically and abstractly while drawing from everything you learned in basic and advanced practice nursing, nursing theory, public health, math, art, research, science, anthropology, medicine, pharmacology, chemisty — all these things that we tap into daily while providing care and working and learning alongside our NP and MD colleagues — are you only doing it "somewhere in the middle" of your intellect and clinical practice skill set, or, do you tap into your knowledge base at the very top and most elevated level of your intellect and education and at the highest level your nursing license provides you the privilege of practicing? Do you see how the term "mid-level provider" suggests that you are somehow inferior despite all that your know, despite your APN education and training. Mid-level is neither a good nor an ecompassing term that unites providers from medicine and nursing. Implicit in the term is the notion that you are less than who are actually are in comparison to another person; the physician, and that is one of the cruxes of the problem. This language fails to build bridges and relationship between nursing and medicine becasue it dismisses who you fully are, and religates nursing to a position somewhere else, somewhere lower. And while you may not feel this way, some folks certainly do. The term rings of dismissiveness, and to others I've spoken with, it feels dehumanizing becasue they are not being seen or treated in thier entirety, but only in contrast to the physician. The term implies that physicans alone are fully capable while others are less capabale. The term mid-level is comparative in nature in that it is comparing those who practice nursing to those who pratice medicine, and places the practice and disciple of medicine above nursing and not next to nursing as an equal partner, and therein lays another crux of the problem. Furthermore, why is medicine referring to you as a MID-level provider instead of what you are in actuality; an ADVANCED level provider—an advanced practice level registered nurse? The term mid-level helps to assure medicine's dominace over nursing while relegating nursing to a diminutive and dependent spot somewhere beneath medicine and the physican. And while nursing is similar and different than medicine, I, unlike you, believe that we do indeed need to be grouped together in one collegial and equal alliance, with us right next to medicine and the physican. Remember, the term doesn't reflect more training vs. less training, as you asserted. The term "mid-level" and the way it is used professionally and academically has more to do with asserting power over a discipline that is looked upon by medicine as being subserviant and essentially powerless, still, and use of this term attempts to keep us in that position, sadly. But thankfully this is changing as the culture of practice evolves and as younger physicans take thier reigns. But understand PG, we no longer live in this top:down world or practice anymore. That old paradigm has been changing for decades, therefore, there is no room for such pejorative terms aimed to "keeping APNs in their place." Only nursing, and not medicine, can define who we are, and how we practice and what our titles will be, and I, like you was not taught to practice "mid-level" types of nusring care. Rather, I, like you, was taught to practice in an advanced RN capacity, no? Mid-level was not a part of the lexicon during my education and training (though it may be in PA programs, but that's a whole other can of worms). Language and words matter and I do hope you don't think of yourself as something less than what some of our colleagues may prehaps like you to believe. (Typed this fast, ls excuse typos). Best AD"

A great response in one of the comments sections. I couldn't have said it better.

chare · Jan 15, 2023

Benzodiazepine said:

Well that's not what the channel is about. ...

[...]

Again, is this the channel you are referring to: Patients at Risk?

Benzodiazepine said:

... They are not rebuking NPs claims of being "equal". The videos are about nitpicking articles and cases that diminish the value of NPs (in general) thus undermining our specialty in the eyes of the public. There is no credit given to those well qualified wonderful caring poviders. Again if you refer to my original post is not about the issue the field is facing but how this channel is negating nurses value.

[...]

I never claimed any of what you posted here. Again most of these videos, and I agree with you that their intent seems to be to degrade both NP and PA practice, seem to be mediated by Dr. Rebekah Bernard, as she appears in many, if not all of the videos.

Benzodiazepine said:

[...]

LOL to nurses and tech analogy. ...

What exactly are you trying to say here?

Benzodiazepine said:

[...]

... To me it's a very unethical passive aggressive way to show your superiority. Why not start a channel about how our Healthcare can benefit from well trained professionals. State a problem and offer a solution.

Again, this is all an extension of a book, Patients at Risk: The Rise of the Nurse Practitioner and Physician Assistant in Healthcare by Dr. Niran Al-Agba and Dr. Rebekah Bernard.

Benzodiazepine said:

... But please show me which video you are referring to when you say the doctors in this channel are creating these videos due to the claim that NPs consider themselves equal.

That's not the way it works. As you are the one that posted this ...

Benzodiazepine said:

I was so appalled to stumble upon this channel where an MD bashes nursing profession and makes us sound like dangerous criminals. The channel calls Patient at Risk. What are your thoughts on it

... it's on you to show us which video you are referring to.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 15, 2023

It's a couple of years old and seems to be only from the perspective that NPs and PA's are dangerous and put patient's at risk because they aren't doctors with many hours of training.

This would be like saying LPNs cause problems because they aren't RNs.

Licensed doctors misdiagnose, ignore symptoms, make med errors in giving anesthesia, on and on.

Pharmacists make mistakes.

You really can make a YouTube channel or documentary on medical errors and bash any profession. However, it is a problem and these things should be uncovered to make improvements.

JBMmom, MSN, NP · Jan 15, 2023

I listened to one of the episodes. The physicians talked about NPs that they say they trusted and were good NPs, but had bad outcomes which affected their malpractice because they were associated with the NP. It sounds like what happened to these NPs and physicians were errors that could have happened to a NP or MD. It's unfortunate that there was a poor patient outcome for anyone, but jumping to blame it solely on the NP having less education seems a little unreasonable.

I would imagine they hired the NP because it was a cost effective alternative to hiring another MD. So it sounds like a good idea at the time, but then they threw them under the bus when something went wrong. They talk about using NPs in only specific instances with very strict parameters and protocols. But it's healthcare and things happen. It sounds like one of the NPs saw a pediatric patient and then other healthcare providers saw the same pediatric patient and there ended up being a problem. How was it identified as the fault of only that NP if they also saw other providers?

I won't ever be a physician. I will never portray myself as a physician. I respect that they have extensive training that I will never have. But I'm fulfilling a role for my organization, getting paid a fraction of what my attending physician gets paid, and making decisions based on my training- provided by that organization, and my education. If there was no upside to an organization for having me in my role, they wouldn't do it, they didn't hire me to be nice. If MDs don't want to work with NPs, fine, then don't hire them. But to hire them and then bash them when something goes wrong seems kind of crappy.

JKL33 · Jan 16, 2023

JBMmom said:

If MDs don't want to work with NPs, fine, then don't hire them. But to hire them and then bash them when something goes wrong seems kind of crappy.

The people that are doing the "bashing" hired the NPs?

allnurses Guide · Jan 16, 2023

Benzodiazepine said:

I was so appalled to stumble upon this channel where an MD bashes nursing profession and makes us sound like dangerous criminals. The channel calls Patient at Risk. What are your thoughts on it

I think it's discouraging to see one sector of healthcare professionals reactively denigrate another simply from a lack of factual data, or a feeling of insecurity based somewhat on reality, and somewhat a reflexive emotional response.

I don't see anything wrong about discussing the pros and cons of current NP education, because NPs themselves discuss that topic.

I did watch the video where she's unbelievably shocked and horrified that some company is offering a 4-hour course on how to prescribe HRT, and openly stating that money might be made.

I have to agree with you, Benzo. The hostile attitude, and insulting tone made me angry, and I'm not an NP.

CollegeKid2020, BSN, RN · Jan 16, 2023

Emergent said:

She's a Karen, what else need be said??

I came here to comment on this but you beat me to it. Well said.

klone, MSN, RN · Jan 16, 2023

Benzodiazepine said:

Why not start a channel about how our Healthcare can benefit from well trained professionals. State a problem and offer a solution.

But how would that get the clicks and likes that she wants?

Eh, it's a free market. Whatever floats their boat.

JBMmom, MSN, NP · Jan 16, 2023

JKL33 said:

The people that are doing the "bashing" hired the NPs?

Yes, one of the MDs said they hired a NP that they had all worked with and respected. She sounded like she was supportive of this NP, but then recounted an unfortunate patient that saw the NP twice and then went to the ER and I'm assuming died because she was sued, and the MD proceeded to say that she will never agree to work with another NP again.

Benzodiazepine · Jan 17, 2023

Yeah exactly my point. They are actually contradicting themselves. They are advocating against independent practice for NPs yet just confirmed that mistakes happen even under supervision. When I worked as an RN of my tech accidentally forgot to report a patients BP of 70/30 it's still my fault for not checking charting. It would be silly of my to start a channel just to talk about nursing assistants mistakes as I have worked with some real good ones.

JKL33 · Jan 17, 2023

JKL33 said:

The people that are doing the "bashing" hired the NPs?

Thanks! I'm still not sure I've seen the correct channel/videos, or maybe just not really provoked.

I asked about the hiring part because with so many physicians employed they are less likely to be the ones vetting and hiring (obviously some physicians are owners and are doing the hiring). I've always wondered about this issue when I worked in the ED; all those charts they need to sign off on and if they get any kind of report from the provider that report is still only as good as the assessment and judgment of the one giving it. And of course the physicians in the pit are neither vetting nor hiring any of those providers. That is, in part, why I am against the concept of so-and-so must supervise and co-sign, just like with the recent thread about LPNs--not as any kind of indictment against the people themselves, it's just an issue I think is unjust overall.

Anyway, thanks for the info.