Is someone justified in harassing someone to tell them if they got vaccinated or not?

toomuchbaloney · Jul 20, 2021

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

Yep.

But what I haven't heard yet is "Hell, no, I'm not getting doxxed on social media!" or "I will get kicked out of my home" or "my partner will leave me" or "I can't let anyone see me doing that..." or "I'm afraid I'll get fired" or "[So-and-so] would blow a gasket if I did that" or anything remotely similar.

I just had a text conversation with a relative in Michigan who is very much living with a person who she believed would "blow a gasket" if she vaccinated against covid. Sometimes we discover these people when we actively encourage our circle of contacts to vaccinate. They aren't necessarily reluctant to vaccinate...they are reluctant to trigger the angry person or people in their lives.

JKL33 · Jul 21, 2021

2 hours ago, Susie2310 said:

I read today that 57% of people in the US have received one dose of the Covid vaccine, and the number that is fully vaccinated is still less than 50%. A number of states lag behind in vaccinations, and even in states with higher numbers of vaccinations there are still pockets that remain mostly unvaccinated. With the Delta variant now the dominant variant in the US, we can expect increasing numbers of cases and more burdening of the health care systems and more deaths. Are you aware of the current situation in the UK?

I understand all of that. I am a proponent of answering questions, providing factual scientific information, using accommodations to encourage vaccination and overall most efforts I have heard of. Everything quoted above can be true and it doesn't speak at all to the issue of whether or not the reason for disappointing vaccination rates is the reason being discussed here (fear of antivaxxers' reactions).

I do think people's words and public portrayals are worth griping about if they are unfounded. We're supposedly about facts, remember? I do not believe unnecessarily/incorrectly demonizing opponents is an effective strategy for almost anything, regardless which side one is on.

Again, I don't think that if people are truly fearful of being found out places like parking lots are going to cut it. That's why something about this concern doesn't seem completely genuine. If you're really concerned about a certain portion of the population (say women in abusive relationships, for example) you should make genuine, directed efforts to vaccinate the populations you know about in spaces that they can frequent with less danger. What is probably less effective, if one really cares, is making a blanket statement that if you're fearful we can vaccinate you in one of our patient rooms that we use for every other patient every single other day, or else in the drive-through or in your car while you sit in the open parking lot.

2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I just had a text conversation with a relative in Michigan who is very much living with a person who she believed would "blow a gasket" if she vaccinated against covid.

I am sorry to hear that. Were you able to ask whether the accommodations we are discussing would ease her decision to get vaccinated? That's the next relevant info. Assuming that people are not getting vaccinated due to the fears we are discussing, what helped them go ahead and get vaccinated?

toomuchbaloney · Jul 21, 2021

21 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

I understand all of that. I am a proponent of answering questions, providing factual scientific information, using accommodations to encourage vaccination and overall most efforts I have heard of. Everything quoted above can be true and it doesn't speak at all to the issue of whether or not the reason for disappointing vaccination rates is the reason being discussed here (fear of antivaxxers' reactions).

I do think people's words and public portrayals are worth griping about if they are unfounded. We're supposedly about facts, remember? I do not believe unnecessarily/incorrectly demonizing opponents is an effective strategy for almost anything, regardless which side one is on.

Again, I don't think that if people are truly fearful of being found out places like parking lots are going to cut it. That's why something about this concern doesn't seem completely genuine. If you're really concerned about a certain portion of the population (say women in abusive relationships, for example) you should make genuine, directed efforts to vaccinate the populations you know about in spaces that they can frequent with less danger. What is probably less effective, if one really cares, is making a blanket statement that if you're fearful we can vaccinate you in one of our patient rooms that we use for every other patient every single other day, or else in the drive-through or in your car while you sit in the open parking lot.

I am sorry to hear that. Were you able to ask whether the accommodations we are discussing would ease her decision to get vaccinated? That's the next relevant info. Assuming that people are not getting vaccinated due to the fears we are discussing, what helped them go ahead and get vaccinated?

She won't be vaccinating. She lives in upper middle class suburban Michigan. Her husband is adamantly opposed to the covid vaccines. She is related to me by marriage. Her family are Pakistani immigrants and are vaccinated against covid.

Conqueror+, BSN, RN · Jul 21, 2021

Its interesting that unvaccinated folks are characterized as rabid, idiotic and aggressive. The pro-vaxxers are no better with their condescension and name calling. MAYBE some unvaccinated folks aren't comfortable talking because no one likes a pushy, judgmental know it all in their business or their face. I envision doing this to a patient who declines. Nurses would be appalled but have NO issue doing it to each other.

toomuchbaloney · Jul 21, 2021

3 hours ago, Conqueror+ said:

Its interesting that unvaccinated folks are characterized as rabid, idiotic and aggressive. The pro-vaxxers are no better with their condescension and name calling. MAYBE some unvaccinated folks aren't comfortable talking because no one likes a pushy, judgmental know it all in their business or their face. I envision doing this to a patient who declines. Nurses would be appalled but have NO issue doing it to each other.

Nurses should know better than to come to a nursing forum to tell everyone that they aren't vaccinating because of poorly sourced opinions and vague concerns. Why would you envision a nurse bullying a patient into vaccination? Is it expected behavior, in your view, for a nurse to interject personal opinion into the patient's health decisions? Do you tell them of your hesitancy?

DesiDani · Jul 21, 2021

Just because I am vaccinated I still don't want people to feel that they can freely cough, sneeze, or put their grummy hands on me.

DesiDani · Jul 21, 2021

I rather like wearing my mask during work. It protects me from patients who openly cough and sneeze in my directions. There are some who "claim" they can't hear me or demand that I take down my mask because I am vaccinated. It is that flying stranger spittle that I worried about. I may not get sick with covid, but staying home for the head cold is no fun either

heron, ASN, RN · Jul 21, 2021

9 hours ago, Conqueror+ said:

Its interesting that unvaccinated folks are characterized as rabid, idiotic and aggressive. The pro-vaxxers are no better with their condescension and name calling. MAYBE some unvaccinated folks aren't comfortable talking because no one likes a pushy, judgmental know it all in their business or their face. I envision doing this to a patient who declines. Nurses would be appalled but have NO issue doing it to each other.

I have personally witnessed the devastation wrought by a single worker choosing to decline testing after traveling, then choosing to return to work sick. Yep … I judge.

Meanwhile, I reserve the use of the word covidiot to refer to the microchip/magnetization/infertility/dna damage set, as well as the willfully ignorant.

Even I - an AD grad, who never learned statistics or how to read a scientific study - understand the concepts of herd immunity and risk reduction.

Conqueror+, BSN, RN · Jul 21, 2021

11 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Nurses should know better than to come to a nursing forum to tell everyone that they aren't vaccinating because of poorly sourced opinions and vague concerns. Why would you envision a nurse bullying a patient into vaccination? Is it expected behavior, in your view, for a nurse to interject personal opinion into the patient's health decisions? Do you tell them of your hesitancy?

If a nurse is capable of bullying and demeaning a colleague because they don't agree with them then why is it so far fetched to imagine a patient being treated the same way?

toomuchbaloney · Jul 21, 2021

18 minutes ago, Conqueror+ said:

If a nurse is capable of bullying and demeaning a colleague because they don't agree with them then why is it so far fetched to imagine a patient being treated the same way?

This is not a matter of simple disagreement. This is deliberate elevation of poorly sourced suspicion and fears of life saving vaccines during a deadly pandemic and direct pushback from a health professional in a public forum. Which side of that conflict are you claiming?

Conqueror+, BSN, RN · Jul 21, 2021

4 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

This is not a matter of simple disagreement. This is deliberate elevation of poorly sourced suspicion and fears of life saving vaccines during a deadly pandemic and direct pushback from a health professional in a public forum. Which side of that conflict are you claiming?

I'm claiming the side that doesn't see room for name calling amongst professionals. This thread wasn't about pro/anti vax. It was about the right to privacy whether you are vaccinated or not.

toomuchbaloney · Jul 21, 2021

2 minutes ago, Conqueror+ said:

I'm claiming the side that doesn't see room for name calling amongst professionals. This thread wasn't about pro/anti vax. It was about the right to privacy whether you are vaccinated or not.

So? The unvaccinated person should just keep their reasons "private" if they don't want to deal with the resultant discussion and challenges to reasoning. That's safer for the entire country, when those choosing unwisely don't share their distrust and suspicions during a pandemic.