Is someone justified in harassing someone to tell them if they got vaccinated or not?

[DesiDani]

Say you got vaccinated and choose not to stand in the middle of the street to tell the world. Yet friend or coworker keeps nagging you to tell them if you did or not 

[JKL33]

38 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Maybe you haven't met any aggressive antivaxxers. They can be very abusive in person.

I know some people that are not vaccinated, have no intention of getting vaccinated. They're apparently comfortable with their position, why shouldn't I be? A couple of people I already knew their game before they started making comments so as soon as they did I came right out of the gate with "heck yeah, I got it the first instant I could--and bought some more stocks too...check out $MRNA!! ?"). I figured that'd really make their day.

But, to answer your question. I do know some people that are seriously against the covid vaccines. None have been particularly aggressive. So no, I haven't met the rabid animal that is actually going to threaten me or (???? whatever other negative consequence people are worried about) when they find out my vaccination status. And if they're only going to shun me or talk crap about me --- uh, okay. Maybe this has to do with what one considers abusive. If someone is not a viable and significant threat to my life, my family or my job/career then they aren't much of a threat.

[toomuchbaloney]

20 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

I know some people that are not vaccinated, have no intention of getting vaccinated. They're apparently comfortable with their position, why shouldn't I be? A couple of people I already knew their game before they started making comments so as soon as they did I came right out of the gate with "heck yeah, I got it the first instant I could--and bought some more stocks too...check out $MRNA!! ?"). I figured that'd really make their day.

But, to answer your question. I do know some people that are seriously against the covid vaccines. None have been particularly aggressive. So no, I haven't met the rabid animal that is actually going to threaten me or (???? whatever other negative consequence people are worried about) when they find out my vaccination status. And if they're only going to shun me or talk crap about me --- uh, okay. Maybe this has to do with what one considers abusive. If someone is not a viable and significant threat to my life, my family or my job/career then they aren't much of a threat.

Then you haven't met the aggressive antivaxxers...I'm related to one...he's a very angry upper middle class male (with a trust fund) who is very angry about the liberal vaccination agenda that keeps him from his work.  He will yell an angry lecture about sheeple and Fauci emails and the ER doc that he knows into your face and then he will smirk in your face as he tells you that the pandemic was overblown and it's now over. Most of us have seen smirks from entitled but angry white males before. 

[JKL33]

I'm just really not bothered by those types of antics. I don't care what people's facial expressions or comments are. As I said, if they aren't a threat to my life, family or job then I don't need to even think about altering a single thing.

[toomuchbaloney]

15 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

I'm just really not bothered by those types of antics. I don't care what people's facial expressions or comments are. As I said, if they aren't a threat to my life, family or job then I don't need to even think about altering a single thing.

LOL

Well, clearly, some hesitant Americans are very much influenced by those sort of angry but aggressive antivaxxers...and anger is the prevailing emotion of the conservatives who are refusing to vaccinate.  These people do represent a threat.  

[JKL33]

19 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Well, clearly, some hesitant Americans are very much influenced by those sort of angry but aggressive antivaxxers

I'm in "real discussion" mode, here, not argumentative spirit. ? I'm serious here when I say.... Just because some public official said something does not clearly mean anything about why some hesitant Americans are not getting vaccinated. I will admit that it's possible that in making that kind of statement the official was covering one of many possible reasons that maybe someone might be hesitant no matter how likely/unlikely. That doesn't mean it's a huge problem or even likely.

I can't find a lot of info about this. I was looking around last night after I first read your comment. I did find this one article:

https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/local-news-local-news/ozarks-healthcare-is-offering-confidential-vaccinations/

Quote

Dr. Priscilla Frase with Ozarks Healthcare explains the procedure, ” Every vaccine is given in a confidential environment. We have a private room for that. If you don’t want to be waiting in the waiting room, we’ll come out to the car for people. They can go through the drive-through. We’ll do whatever we can to accommodate. They don’t have to be worried about those things that they shouldn’t have to worry about if they’re making their own choice to get the vaccine, regardless of what their family or friends may think.”

So here's my problem. There is an implication being made and an accommodation being offered. The implication is that disapproving fellow citizens pose some kind of real threat in regard to all of this and the threat may keep people from being vaccinated, so an accommodation is necessary. The accommodations offered are: 1) a private room in which to be vaccinated (already exists for innumerable other healthcare encounters) or 2) being vaccinated in a parking lot.

I'm not agreeing with antivaxxers, their anti-vax choice, their anger, their disregard, any of it. What I am saying, and am fairly consistent about across a variety of topics, is that X's drama and BS is no better than Y's. Drama and BS rarely truly helps anyone's cause.

If someone is afraid to be vaccinated because their anti-vax neighbor or family member might terrorize them, well I'm glad to know that their vaccine can be administered in a parking lot to "protect" them from the antivaxxers.

I will say this: I hope this is an issue that said public officials know something about. Because if they're being disingenuous with their public statements it will only be more fuel for the fire and more fodder for anti-vaxers' derision.

[heron, ASN, RN]

JKL33: I think it’s a bit disingenuous to dismiss the folks in question as “anti-vax neighbors”. Parents, supervisors. employers come to mind as potential sources of actual harm. And don’t underestimate the stress of being harassed by purely social contacts. We’ve seen at least one person doxed here on AN because she had the wrong political views, according to the culprit. Not such a stretch to imagine being spotted in a waiting room at a vaccination site by someone who enjoys nailing people on social media. It’s a very, very small world.

It’s great that you feel relatively impervious to gossip and harassment (verbal and otherwise), but others do not necessarily have the same personal and social resources that you do.

[toomuchbaloney]

54 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

I'm in "real discussion" mode, here, not argumentative spirit. ? I'm serious here when I say.... Just because some public official said something does not clearly mean anything about why some hesitant Americans are not getting vaccinated. I will admit that it's possible that in making that kind of statement the official was covering one of many possible reasons that maybe someone might be hesitant no matter how likely/unlikely. That doesn't mean it's a huge problem or even likely.

I can't find a lot of info about this. I was looking around last night after I first read your comment. I did find this one article:

https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/local-news-local-news/ozarks-healthcare-is-offering-confidential-vaccinations/

So here's my problem. There is an implication being made and an accommodation being offered. The implication is that disapproving fellow citizens pose some kind of real threat in regard to all of this and the threat may keep people from being vaccinated, so an accommodation is necessary. The accommodations offered are: 1) a private room in which to be vaccinated (already exists for innumerable other healthcare encounters) or 2) being vaccinated in a parking lot.

I'm not agreeing with antivaxxers, their anti-vax choice, their anger, their disregard, any of it. What I am saying, and am fairly consistent about across a variety of topics, is that X's drama and BS is no better than Y's. Drama and BS rarely truly helps anyone's cause.

If someone is afraid to be vaccinated because their anti-vax neighbor or family member might terrorize them, well I'm glad to know that their vaccine can be administered in a parking lot to "protect" them from the antivaxxers.

I will say this: I hope this is an issue that said public officials know something about. Because if they're being disingenuous with their public statements it will only be more fuel for the fire and more fodder for anti-vaxers' derision.

You call it drama but to others it's actual harassment and intimidation. Just wearing a mask in close indoor environments has gotten people accosted by angry covidiots in their communities.  It's happened to me personally here in Alaska and the emotionally distressed response to a vaccination question or comment in a public business or transport hub can be blistering from the angry antivaxxer.  These folks get thrown out of businesses and cabs and airplanes far too often.  They aren't any nicer to their family and neighbors than they are to strangers about their covid feelings, IMV.

[toomuchbaloney]

52 minutes ago, heron said:

JKL33: I think it’s a bit disingenuous to dismiss the folks in question as “anti-vax neighbors”. Parents, supervisors. employers come to mind as potential sources of actual harm. And don’t underestimate the stress of being harassed by purely social contacts. We’ve seen at least one person doxed here on AN because she had the wrong political views, according to the culprit. Not such a stretch to imagine being spotted in a waiting room at a vaccination site by someone who enjoys nailing people on social media. It’s a very, very small world.

It’s great that you feel relatively impervious to gossip and harassment (verbal and otherwise), but others do not necessarily have the same personal and social resources that you do.

You've said this better than I have.  Much better.  Thank you.  

[JKL33]

2 hours ago, heron said:

JKL33: I think it’s a bit disingenuous to dismiss the folks in question as “anti-vax neighbors”.

What I said was:

2 hours ago, JKL33 said:

their anti-vax neighbor or family member

which was meant to cover the spectrum of people close to someone either physically or emotionally in some way without having to list every possible human relationship.

Please don't label me as being disingenuous.

 

2 hours ago, heron said:

Not such a stretch to imagine being spotted in a waiting room at a vaccination site by someone who enjoys nailing people on social media. It’s a very, very small world.

I will admit the various possibilities. However my concern is usually most easily motivated when I can verify something.

I also am not sure how the parking lot scenario from the article I previously posted mitigates any of these concerns. That article (and this issue....so far) reads to me like someone wanted to advertise the various accommodations available to make sure it's easy for people to get vaccinated....which in and of itself is completely good and reasonable -- but then there's the rationale for why these accommodations might be necessary, which reads more like, "let's throw some shade while we're at it."

I say that because of the accommodations offered, one is a very standard setting/mode for healthcare delivery in general, and the other is not a solution to the implied problem.

2 hours ago, heron said:

It’s great that you feel relatively impervious to gossip and harassment (verbal and otherwise), but others do not necessarily have the same personal and social resources that you do.

I understand that, I really do.

TBH, I am kind of questioning the idea that a great number of people are struggling over this at this point. What I have been able to witness directly is that people seem to have made their decision one way or another and are lined up sort of along political lines*.  I can't verify how close to the truth that may or may not be. When I've had the opportunity to answer questions or discuss someone's hesitancy with them (which, between patients, family and social contacts has been quite a number of opportunities), they have verbalized the same common and unfounded concerns that we've all heard about (unnecessary, already had covid, hoax, fertility problems, etc., etc., etc.). I haven't yet had anyone remotely suggest fear of social repercussion over receiving the vaccine. Maybe I just haven't run across the right people yet, I don't know.

*Edit: I probably shouldn't have said political lines. I feel they have mostly made decisions based on how they feel and what they believe about covid and everything surrounding it. Which I guess may or may not loosely follow political lines.

[Wuzzie]

1 minute ago, JKL33 said:

they have verbalized the same common and unfounded concerns that we've all heard about (unnecessary, already had covid, hoax, fertility problems, etc., etc., etc.).

You forgot the microchips.?

[JKL33]

Just now, Wuzzie said:

You forgot the microchips.?

Yep.

But what I haven't heard yet is "Hell, no, I'm not getting doxxed on social media!" or "I will get kicked out of my home" or "my partner will leave me" or "I can't let anyone see me doing that..." or "I'm afraid I'll get fired" or "[So-and-so] would blow a gasket if I did that" or anything remotely similar.

[Susie2310]

16 hours ago, JKL33 said:

I can't find the right emoji for this; it's something between eyeroll and smirk. But maybe I'm just naïve. Is this official suggesting that despite the fact that one can receive, as a matter of routine procedure, healthcare for many different types of situations they may not want others knowing about, but discreet covid vax is special/necessary thing?

Inform me.

Cause I'm not a fan of drama no matter where it comes from, and this sounds very similar to run of the mill drama.

I think the health official is doing what they can to help people to feel comfortable with getting vaccinated.  I believe that is the intention.  If being vaccinated discreetly (no waiting in public areas until you are called for your turn) is what it takes vs sitting in a waiting room waiting to be called into the vaccination room whether at the doctor's office or at the drug store or in the parking lot, then the very worthy goal of getting more people vaccinated is accomplished.

I read today that 57% of people in the US have received one dose of the Covid vaccine, and the number that is fully vaccinated is still less than 50%.  A number of states lag behind in vaccinations, and even in states with higher numbers of vaccinations there are still pockets that remain mostly unvaccinated.  With the Delta variant now the dominant variant in the US, we can expect increasing numbers of cases and more burdening of the health care systems and more deaths.  Are you aware of the current situation in the UK? So I don't think the health official was doing anything frivolous or unnecessary by stating that people can be vaccinated discreetly.  I think it was a responsible, appropriate, action, with the aim of encouraging people who have reservations about being vaccinated to be vaccinated, thus preventing more suffering, deaths, and burdening of the health care systems, and of preventing more lockdowns and more financial burdens both for individuals and for the economy.

I don't see anything to gripe about.