Is the Coronavirus beginning the breakdown of our society?

DannyBoy8, RN · Apr 23, 2020

An economist from Harvard was recently on a podcast and estimated a 5-10% of a collapsed society. That doesn't mean mad max/road warrior situation, but rather that people cease working together in relative harmony. Which believe it or not, prior to COVID, we were living in relatively peaceful, harmonious, and prosperous time of human history.

I think the new findings out of California that we are only detecting 1 out of 50 cases might have changed his estimate for the better.

Wannabenurseneko · Apr 23, 2020

I think it was already broken a lot of us just didn’t notice it before .

OUxPhys, BSN, RN · Apr 23, 2020

I dont want to say revolution but I think it is opening the eyes of a lot of people in our country. I think it finally shows how most hospitals are ran and what they care about most. I think it shows how unprepared we were/are at all levels of government. I think it shows how our government seems to care more for big business than its own citizens. I would call it a huge wake up call. The bigger question is will we change for the better or will we go right back to how we were?

**CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN** · Apr 23, 2020

It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out. For the moment, in my city, things seem... normal. I am in an urban center in a state that has extremely high levels of Covid. We are in full lockdown. But even so— when I go to the grocery store I am always surprised by how things seem to be business-as-usual. Other than people have scarves over their faces. I know it isn’t reflective of the macroeconomic reality, which is catastrophic for sure. But when I turn on the TV, it looks like Mad Max. Then I go outside and think, Oh, actually, the world is still functioning.

allnurses Guide · Apr 23, 2020

10 minutes ago, OUxPhys said:
I dont want to say revolution but I think it is opening the eyes of a lot of people in our country. I think it finally shows how most hospitals are ran and what they care about most. I think it shows how unprepared we were/are at all levels of government. I think it shows how our government seems to care more for big business than its own citizens. I would call it a huge wake up call. The bigger question is will we change for the better or will we go right back to how we were?

As long as the current government exists it will be back to business as usual.

Emergent, RN · Apr 23, 2020

The thing is, I don't think it really has much to do let's go happens to be in the president's office, or what party is in charge.

I think that we are depending on an infrastructure that is so complicated, and our standard of living is unnaturally high. This will eventually come crashing down.

Our social order will not be able to withstand any major upheaval. The lockdown on the might juat do that economy might push us over the edge if it goes on.

The Healthcare System is the heart of dysfunction going on here. Not only is it hard pressed by the virus, but even worse is that hospitals are now going broke because of the quarantine. The House of Cards might all come crashing down under this sort of pressure.

And, if it doesn't happen on this round, it might on the next. This has shown our weaknesses. We aren't mighty and invulnerable by any stretch of the imagination.

toomuchbaloney · Apr 23, 2020

7 minutes ago, Emergent said:
The thing is, I don't think it really has much to do let's go happens to be in the president's office, or what party is in charge.
I think that we are depending on an infrastructure that is so complicated, and our standard of living is unnaturally high. This will eventually come crashing down.
Our social order will not be able to withstand any major upheaval. The lockdown on the might juat do that economy might push us over the edge if it goes on.
The Healthcare System is the heart of dysfunction going on here. Not only is it hard pressed by the virus, but even worse is that hospitals are now going broke because of the quarantine. The House of Cards might all come crashing down under this sort of pressure.
And, if it doesn't happen on this round, it might on the next. This has shown our weaknesses. We aren't mighty and invulnerable by any stretch of the imagination.

I would disagree.

Priorities and values of the political parties and those party members we elect are what drive how the USA is funded and governed. The founding documents are clear that the people, not profits or business, are the priority of the government.

You say the the health system is the heart of the dysfunction. Well, our health system is a good example of that difference in politics. The party which currently controls the presidency and Senate believes that the people should have access to health care primarily through ability to pay. Under their leadership fewer people have access to health insurance and care, even when things are going well under their leadership. That is the party which, when controlling state governments, has cut funding for public health departments. That is the party who, representing business interests, want government to be as small and unobtrusive as possible...small enough to fit into a uterus maybe, while ignoring environmental malfeasance, or putting the business in charge of the EPA evaluations of conduct. Wouldn't it be easier if hospitals could conduct their own CMS evaluations?

Our infrastructure is merely ignored and outdated. We don't make investments like that anymore unless everything is privatized. Patchworks of private business interests with the government's decreasing interested in protecting citizens while increasingly trying to build wealth for the wealthy hasn't proved to be a good governing strategy. That has been the struggle and direction of drift of the federal and state governments my entire adult life. The GOP has most assuredly drifted to the position of protecting corporate rights and wealth in this country. It matters when the government's ability to care for the people is intentionally diminished in pursuit of other priorities. IMHO

So, it won't change until Americans vote in record numbers and they vote against the liars and kleptocrats. Anyone who stood at a podium and suggested that giving the average worker a $1200 stimulus check would make them lazy should be voted out...people like Lindsay Graham and Tom Cotton. Anyone who supports decreasing tax revenue for the wealthy and cutting social safety net to balance the loss of revenue should be voted out...people like Mitch McConnell.

Politics matter.

We won't likely agree and republicans are not bad people, but the current republican party is not governing in the interests of the people and it is more obvious today than ever before. Look at them preparing to sacrifice the health of the people in pursuit of the health of the economy...

guest1146168 · Apr 23, 2020

21 hours ago, juniper222 said:
Don't take this the wrong way. But from a cold, scientific view, the virus is a thing of nature that's sole reason for existence is to kill people. Since our life expectancy has gone way up from advances in medicine and technology, there are fewer natural controls on our global populations. This in turn has put a strain on available resources. The virus is nature's way of controlling that. I, as a member of the human population, don't like it as much as a gazelle doesn't like being slaughtered by the lion. It's just one cruel side to nature.

The virus is just the latest zoonotic special gift to come out of China's wet markets (similar atrocities exist in other Asian countries and some of Africa). It's a cultural thing where fresh markets are considered healthier and groceries with packaged food as we know it are resisted. No inherent issue with that but it's the nature of these wet markets which go on for square miles of crowding humans, reptiles and live (terrified, immunosuppressed) mammals , both farm-raised and exotic slaughtered live in filthy conditions (apparently that's how they really know they are getting peacock, or civet, panda or whatever) In all, the perfect storm and petri dish for zoonotic jumps to humans.

After having to shut down their own economy for multiple months, China has finally banned various species from them, but I'm aware of no measures taken to address the crowding and sanitation issues, and most of it just goes black market when they do. perhaps no different than illicit drugs , etc, so long as there's a market for it and large populations in dire poverty, it finds a way.

Put another way, with this going on and global travel and what appears to be effectively near our entire supply chain sourced in China (only being partly rhetorical), my pessimistic side expects more, not fewer, zoonotic epidemics. But I'd encourage everyone to go out and Google and watch some of the live recordings of what these wet markets are like. Sometimes a picture really is worth a thousand words. But be warned, it can be very upsetting.

toomuchbaloney · Apr 23, 2020

A virus does not have a purpose of killing humans. If anything, it's purpose is reproducing itself.

HandsOffMySteth · Apr 23, 2020

5 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:
A virus does not have a purpose of killing humans. If anything, it's purpose is reproducing itself.

Killing is in its nature. What you said is true, however, that is like saying humanity's propose is to reproduce, or anything else with DNA for that matter.

Emergent, RN · Apr 23, 2020

It's an accident of nature if a mutated virus can damage the health of organisms. It's rather random.

There are conspiracy theories out there about the origins of this one. I don't subscribe to them, but I guess anything's possible.

It's also an accident of nature if a meteor hits the Earth. Of course this could easily bring Humanity to its knees. Eventually something will.

Daisy4RN · Apr 23, 2020

9 minutes ago, Emergent said:
It's an accident of nature if a mutated virus can damage the health of organisms. It's rather random.
There are conspiracy theories out there about the origins of this one. I don't subscribe to them, but I guess anything's possible.
It's also an accident of nature if a meteor hits the Earth. Of course this could easily bring Humanity to its knees. Eventually something will.

I have heard that it may be possible that the virus escaped the Wuhan lab where the Chinese scientist were working with it. I am sure we will never know for sure as the Communist Chinese gov covers its tracts. We also know that there were at least two Chinese MDs who tried to warn the public about the virus, 1 died and the other one disappeared. I hope this is investigated whether or not we ever get to the truth.