I wish RN schools would quit teaching the RN students LPN's can't do anything!

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I am getting so frustrated with some RN students in these NCLEX review groups. They keep saying that LPN's can't do any assessments, they can't do any patient teaching, or evaluations, that it is illegal. I think it is important that RN understand the real scope of practice of the LPN. To hear them talk LPN's are no different than medication aids. It makes me sad that they are taught to think so little of our education and training.

Didn't mean to offend you, I just deal in facts rather than assumption. So I was curious to do research for myself to have a greater knowledge base, so that I may know where LPN's have the same scope of practice as RN's….that's all.

I have had some of the worse jobs you could imagine, since I was a high school drop out until the age of 35. So understand thinking no one respects you, based simply off lack of education. That is not the case for me, as I now realize simple stating ideas that you heard or have seen does not make them a fact. Seeing the scope of practice and understanding what it means would be fact based.

I'm sorry that I kind of went off on you. I read your post right after reading a bunch of postings that were on this thread stating what their interpretation of what an LPN can or cannot do and not considering that maybe their state is more restrictive than others. I was annoyed to see the word "cite" when asking where I got my information. I was stating my own personal nursing experience, which mirrors many of the nurses that have been LPNs for many years in my state (provided they have acute care experience and IV certification). It came off sounding like I was being accused of doing something outside of my practice. I was trained at a very good school and we were taught what we could and could not do. We had almost a year worth of clinical days to learn that role. Since I also know it is my responsibility to know my role for myself I had reviewed the nurse practice act for my state. Since I have had a lot of college experience over the years and some of it recently I saw the difference with the word "cite" as in, provide a formal legitimate source when writing a research paper and "site" as in where you could find more information, such as a website for personal reading.

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"No one can make you feel inferior without your permission" So true in this situation. I started as an HHA to CNA to LPN to ASN to BSN and soon MSN so I get it.

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As I'm reading through this thread, I think it might be worth mentioning that it's not just a difference between US States as to what each State's Nurse Practice Act allows LPN/LVNs to do. It's also a difference in education/practice between COUNTRIES.

I noticed that there are a number of Canadian nurses that post on these boards, too, and their education and licensing practices are clearly different from ours.....frankly, I'm more impressed by their education than the US version. As a 'for instance', vocational tech-school practical nursing coursework can be completed in as little as ten months in the US. Not a college degree, no, but a certificate of completion from a LPN program and eligibility to take the NCLEX....one can go from Zero to License in TEN MONTHS. In contrast to that, I'm seeing discussions in Canada of 20-month, 2-year programs for practical nursing. IMHO, there seems to be an obvious question to ask, "why is one program SO much longer, more involved than another?"

Practical nurses can be made from all kinds of programs, and it seems pretty clear to me that if State A will not allow an LPN to do X, Y, and Z tasks, they aren't expecting LPNs in that State to LEARN to do X,Y,and Z task. Yet another State does. In State B, graduates are expected to know X,Y, Z and do it as part of their practice. Gee, wonder why the confusion?? :wideyed:

And in my musings, I wish YET AGAIN for some real standardizations within nursing as a profession, as a whole :(

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Dialysis.

Agree with you RNsRWe. There is too much confusion in the standards of practice state to state. In WI at least there are even differences in scope of practice from setting to setting [LTC LPN's can do some things that are not allowed in other settings]. I am involved in the NCLEX test writing process, and while confidentiality agreements don't allow me to say much, I think I can safely say that this has been an issue in the test writing process for the LPN NCLEX exam.

I don't know that this is an issue that will ever be resolved as I just don't see individual state BON's giving up any autonomy to adopt a standardized scope of practice for any level of licensure.

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Specializes in Certified Med/Surg tele, and other stuff.
As I'm reading through this thread, I think it might be worth mentioning that it's not just a difference between US States as to what each State's Nurse Practice Act allows LPN/LVNs to do. It's also a difference in education/practice between COUNTRIES.

I noticed that there are a number of Canadian nurses that post on these boards, too, and their education and licensing practices are clearly different from ours.....frankly, I'm more impressed by their education than the US version. As a 'for instance', vocational tech-school practical nursing coursework can be completed in as little as ten months in the US. Not a college degree, no, but a certificate of completion from a LPN program and eligibility to take the NCLEX....one can go from Zero to License in TEN MONTHS. In contrast to that, I'm seeing discussions in Canada of 20-month, 2-year programs for practical nursing. IMHO, there seems to be an obvious question to ask, "why is one program SO much longer, more involved than another?"

Practical nurses can be made from all kinds of programs, and it seems pretty clear to me that if State A will not allow an LPN to do X, Y, and Z tasks, they aren't expecting LPNs in that State to LEARN to do X,Y,and Z task. Yet another State does. In State B, graduates are expected to know X,Y, Z and do it as part of their practice. Gee, wonder why the confusion?? :wideyed:

And in my musings, I wish YET AGAIN for some real standardizations within nursing as a profession, as a whole :(

I was a community college LPN. The course itself was 24 months. Way longer than 10, and closer to an ADN program. It was very rigorous.

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Specializes in Vascular Access.
According to the Missouri Practice Act, LPNs cannot do teaching, including discharge teaching, cannot do admissions and cannot do the initial assessments. I was an LPN in a hospital for 20 + years before our hospital realized it. We had been doing those things all along. Then we found out differently and those things were taken away from us.

Please show me in the nursing practice act where it says that LPN's can NOT do initial teaching, or discharge instructions. And, there are many places that allow LPN's to do initial assessments, can you show where that is disallowed too?

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According to the Missouri Practice Act, LPNs cannot do teaching, including discharge teaching, cannot do admissions and cannot do the initial assessments. I was an LPN in a hospital for 20 + years before our hospital realized it. We had been doing those things all along. Then we found out differently and those things were taken away from us.

In my facility we do admissions as LPNs and checked by both RN and LPN MANAGERS

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LPN's are not unlicensed persons.

"Unlicensed person" means an appropriately trained individual, regardless of title, who receives compensation, who functions in a complementary or assistive role to the registered nurse in providing direct patient care or carrying out common nursing tasks and procedures, and who is responsible and accountable for the performance of such tasks and procedures. With the exception of certified nurse aides, this shall not include anyone licensed or certified by a health regulatory board who is practicing within his recognized scope of practice."

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Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.
LPN's are not unlicensed persons.

"Unlicensed person" means an appropriately trained individual, regardless of title, who receives compensation, who functions in a complementary or assistive role to the registered nurse in providing direct patient care or carrying out common nursing tasks and procedures, and who is responsible and accountable for the performance of such tasks and procedures. With the exception of certified nurse aides, this shall not include anyone licensed or certified by a health regulatory board who is practicing within his recognized scope of practice."

I missed it. Who said an lpn is an unlicensed personnel?

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This is the post I was referring to.

I understand you feel short changed for the value of your work. And I appreciate all of my peers from CNA's to the chief medical officer.

But as you progress in your education you begin to research questions. Your posts are incorrect on the scope of practice for a LPN. Here, Virginia Board of Nursing - Laws and Regulations, you can see that all actions of a LPN are the responsibility of the registered nurse (RN). And all actions must be approved by the RN. And it is illegal for the RN to delegate; assessment, education, care plans, etc. to a LPN or anyone else.

And you really have to read and understand the definition of what is considered an "unlicensed person." The BON even states "regardless of title".

With that stated, I respect everyone that is excellent in their practice, regardless of their restrictions.

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Please show me in the nursing practice act where it says that LPN's can NOT do initial teaching, or discharge instructions. And, there are many places that allow LPN's to do initial assessments, can you show where that is disallowed too?

My facility allowed us to do those things as well for the first 25 years I was an LPN. Then it all changed when we were bought out. I had to do a paper on LPN duties and RN duties in my ADN program. I'll have to find it but I gotta get through the NCLEX tomorrow first. Please understand, I'm not dogging LPNs as I have been one for 27 years.

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I was a community college LPN. The course itself was 24 months. Way longer than 10, and closer to an ADN program. It was very rigorous.

Which is precisely my point. Huge disparity in the duration and quality of the programs offered. Your program was 24 months, yet one absolutely can become an LPN in 10, without prior experience or anything else.

You said you were a "community college LPN".....what degree was conferred at the completion of your program? I was unaware of any LPN program that resulted in a college degree....or do you mean the courses took place at a community college, but were not degree-based?

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