I wish RN schools would quit teaching the RN students LPN's can't do anything!

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I am getting so frustrated with some RN students in these NCLEX review groups. They keep saying that LPN's can't do any assessments, they can't do any patient teaching, or evaluations, that it is illegal. I think it is important that RN understand the real scope of practice of the LPN. To hear them talk LPN's are no different than medication aids. It makes me sad that they are taught to think so little of our education and training.

As a travel nurse I met many LPNs who had associates degrees it depends on where you were educated.

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I attended for 12 months my husband attended for 10 months and my niece attended over the last two years of high school this is all in the same state it really just depends.

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Specializes in Emergency Department.
Which is precisely my point. Huge disparity in the duration and quality of the programs offered. Your program was 24 months, yet one absolutely can become an LPN in 10, without prior experience or anything else.

You said you were a "community college LPN".....what degree was conferred at the completion of your program? I was unaware of any LPN program that resulted in a college degree....or do you mean the courses took place at a community college, but were not degree-based?

I attended a community college that essentially had two tracks for the VN program. One resulted in a course completion certificate and the other track (same core program) resulted in a Associates of Science degree and the big difference was the prerequisites taken prior to entry into the program. The second option had each student meet general ed graduation requirements as for any other student, complete some prerequisite coursework not required by the certificate track, and upon completion of the VN coursework, poof! A degree is awarded at the end of the program.

If the issue is the amount of time (years) necessary to complete a program, we should all be pitching a fit about ABSN programs that can be done in just about one year where the rest of us take 2 years of taking nursing core coursework... Zero to RN in a year? Never mind that the workload is quite intense... Same goes for 10 month vs 3-4 semester VN programs. If the quality and amount of information presented is the same, what does it matter that one student completes their program several months earlier than another?

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Specializes in ICU.

I respect my LPN coworkers, I just don't respect how much additional work I have to do when a LPN is next to me. If I have to do the first assessment, the care plan, the patient education, and run the patient's protocols, I feel like I might as well have that patient myself. Those are the rules at my facility. I would probably be happier if myself and another RN had three patient assignments and the LPN could resource for both of us. There would be more help. Instead of having two patients with two nurses and four patients having their nurses pulled away to assess another nurse's patients, all six patients could have two nurses.

Besides, the LPNs are usually resources here and don't take assignments often - they frequently have a lot of questions about titrating pressors, vent settings, etc because that is not usually what they deal with. None of that is the LPN's fault - but if they are going to get critical patients instead of just resourcing, they ought to be able to have a shadow shift or two if they are feeling uncomfortable with their assignments. I would hope I'd get a shadow shift if I was going to be dealing with a lot of things that were new to me, too.

But hey, at least it makes my manager look good when LPNs take assignments! When we are short, we still keep our 1:2 ratio not because there are enough RNs, but because the LPNs are pulled out of the resource role to take patients. I am sure management appreciates how our ratios are always so good and I am sure they brag on our ratios to people applying to work here.

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Please show me in the nursing practice act where it says that LPN's can NOT do initial teaching, or discharge instructions. And, there are many places that allow LPN's to do initial assessments, can you show where that is disallowed too?

I just picked this quote as the the jumping off point for my post. I don't know why everyone keeps asking where it specifically says what LPNs can and cannot do... it is in the NPA of the state, often either on the BON website for that state, or in my state's case, actually in the Century Code. To wit:

" "Licensed practical nurse" means an individual who holds a current license to practice in this state as a licensed practical nurse and who practices dependently under the supervision of a registered nurse, specialty practice registered nurse, advanced practice registered nurse, or licensed practitioner."

The North Dakota Board of Nursing believes that a Licensed Practical Nurse who has the appropriate knowledge and skill may perform selected interventions in the nursing management of intravenous therapy of a stabilized client under the clinical assignment and supervision of a Registered Nurse, Advanced Practice Registered Nurse or Licensed Practitioner in accordance with facility policy.

Q. Can LPNs participate in health teaching of clients and their families? A. Yes. The Board interprets NDAC 43-01-01-08 (10): Health teaching of clients and their families may be implemented by the LPN utilizing an established teaching plan/protocol as assigned by the RN, APRN, or Licensed Practitioner. The LPN is participating in health teaching to promote, attain, and maintain the optimum health level of clients.

Q. Can a Licensed Practical Nurse supervise the practice of a Registered Nurse if the LPN has more years of experience in nursing?

A. No. The Licensed Practical Nurse practices under the direction of the registered nurse, advanced practice registered nurse or licensed practitioner. The LPN may monitor or supervise another LPN or unlicensed assistive person and report to an RN, APRN or licensed practitioner. Registered nursing practice constitutes a higher level of education, knowledge and skill than does the licensed practical nursing practice.

Q. Can a LPN initiate/develop the nursing care plan? A. The Board recommends you review NDAC 54-05-01 Standards for Licensed Practical Nurses. NDAC 54-05-01-08 Standards of Practice related to Licensed practical nurse scope of practice, the nursing process clarifies that the LPN participates in the development of the plan of care and modification to the ongoing nursing care plan. Only the RN may develop the initial nursing care plan and make a nursing diagnosis (NDAC Chapter 54-05-02 Standards of Practice for RNs). This difference between the LPN and RN scope of practice is based on differences in educational preparation of nurses licensed at each level as defined in the NDAC Chapter 54-03.2-06 Curriculum.

2. Conduct a focused nursing assessment and contribute data to the plan of care;

3. Plan for client care, including planning nursing care for a client whose

condition is stable or predictable

12. Contribute to evaluation of the plan of care by gathering, observing, recording, and communicating client responses to nursing interventions;

13. Modify the plan of care in collaboration with a registered nurse, advanced practice registered nurse, or licensed practitioner based on an analysis of client

responses.

The italics are mine for emphasis. I appreciate the LPNs in my hospital, they act as circulators that can really help even out the load. I work in inpatient acute care, so their role is not only limited by our Century Code but also by my facility. They have not been phased out in my hospital, but others in this state have ended hiring LPNs for acute inpatient.

This was a topic heavily discussed in nursing school, as well as twice since I have started working. My facility has locations in over 15 states, so the difference in each state's role of the LPN means the nurse educators have to be VERY clear about the STATE'S expectations and regulations for each site. Its a PITA.

NCLEX land is wonderful, beautiful, and completely make-believe. With the NCLEX being nation-wide and the LPN scopes being state-determined, this demands that the NCLEX teach to the lowest scope of practice. They did tell us numerous times in class that if we moved out of ND, we should call the BON of the state to which we moved to determine the new scope of Practice for the LPN.

I don't devalue the abilities or knowledge of the LPN AT ALL. I got my PN before my ADN.

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OP, I am confused. You talk about "our education" referring to LPNs, but your profile states you have only non-nursing education. I'm either not understanding what you refer to in "our education" regarding LPNs, or non-nursing education has a new meaning of which I'm unaware.

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You can't change your career on the app so perhaps she just hasn't updated.

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Oops, I haven't changed my info in a long time. I am 15 months into a 18 month full time LPN program, graduation is just around the corner!

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Specializes in Emergency Room Nursing.

We're taught to respect every role within our workplace, but we don't learn the scope. Many RN students don't understand... and are judgemental. Which isn't a good prospect for when they're done and in the workplace. At my College there is a lot of that.. its brutal.

I was lucky enough to work as an LPN and fully understand the scope of practice... You can bet I take the time to inform those with comments that are negative about LPNs the real deal...

Gotta break the cycle somehow.

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Specializes in Adult ICU/PICU/NICU.
I understand you feel short changed for the value of your work. And I appreciate all of my peers from CNA's to the chief medical officer.

But as you progress in your education you begin to research questions. Your posts are incorrect on the scope of practice for a LPN. Here, Virginia Board of Nursing - Laws and Regulations, you can see that all actions of a LPN are the responsibility of the registered nurse (RN). And all actions must be approved by the RN. And it is illegal for the RN to delegate; assessment, education, care plans, etc. to a LPN or anyone else.

And you really have to read and understand the definition of what is considered an "unlicensed person." The BON even states "regardless of title".

With that stated, I respect everyone that is excellent in their practice, regardless of their restrictions.

Actually, all of the actions of the LPN are NOT the responsibility of the RN. Not in Virginia or anywhere else. The reality is that the LPN also has a license and is responsible for her/his own scope of practice. What is outside of that scope is the responsibility of the RN. This could be very little or it could be quite a bit depending on the state and facility where that LPN works as LPN scope can vary. I practice in a state where LPNs could do their owns shift assessment, but could not do the admission assessment. Therefore, if an LPN helped with an admit, the RN had to assess the patient and document that assessment. They could not delegate it to the LPN.

I have found that many nursing instructors are ignorant about LPN practice and their role, and that is why we have mistaken ideas such as "The RN is responsible for everything the LPN does". This is spoken from an LPN who completed 3.5 years of a 4 year BSN program. I certainly learned a lot in my BSN program. However, there is quite a bit of difference between academic/theoretical nursing (world of the NCLEX) and the reality of bedside nursing. I went into semi retirement instead of finishing the program. I do not subscribe to the camp of former LPNs who say "Now that I'm an RN I can see a huge difference between the roles." I instead feel that although I appreciated the new things that I learned, most of what I knew about nursing came from my experience, not from the classroom. It made me more knowledgeable about nursing beyond the bedside, but didn't change the way I did bedside nursing.

It is very important to understand the scope of the LPN in the state and facility, both for the RN and the LPN. It is also important to realize that the NCLEX isn't reality, it is simply a hoop you jump through before you can start practicing actual nursing.

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LPNs are on the front line in the Navy. Hospital Corpsman are the equivalent to an LPN in the Navy. And we do it all. LPN's rock

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

Let's remember that LPN's are a valuable part of the healthcare team and that the differences of practice varies GREATLY state to state.

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