(So glad I stumbled across this website again after almost 6 years! I need to change my username because I am not an aspiring nurse anymore, I have been a nurse for almost 3 years! ?)
Anyway, I really do not want to take this new covid vaccine. I know I can’t be the only one who feels this way. Typically I am not an anti-vaxxer but something about this illness is making me think otherwise. For personal reasons I really do not want to take it when available at my hospital, but I’m afraid it will be mandatory. I am almost considering finding a new job if my hospital forces us all to take it. What a shame because I do like my job and wouldn’t know what else to turn to that isn’t nursing, because chances are most healthcare related places of employment will likely require all employees take it.
I want to use the excuse of it being against my religion but I already took the flu vaccine this year. I have nothing against the flu vaccine but didn’t necessarily want it, but my hospital practically FORCED everyone to take it unless they grant you an exemption. I’m afraid they’ll question me why I took the flu shot but cannot take the covid vaccine.
What do you guys think about this? Will you be taking the vaccine? I just want us to be able to make our own decisions about this. If patients can refuse medications, procedures, and treatments, why can’t healthcare workers do the same? I read in multiple articles it will not be required by the federal government but each state and employer can decide whether or not it will be mandatory.
And forget the $1500 “stimulus check” that may be offered if you take it. All the money in the world would not change my mind about taking the vaccine. I feel as though if you have to bribe people to take it, something is peculiar.
I don’t know why this is bothering me so much. It should be a choice in my opinion. But by telling a few friends about not wanting it I feel judged. I have worked with covid patients multiple times since I am one of the younger nurses who does not have any kids/am pregnant. I feel like week after week I was always chosen to go to the covid section. At first I was mad but now it doesn’t bother me. I am not afraid to be near covid patients. Luckily through all this time I haven’t caught it. I always tell people I’d rather catch it than get this vaccine. That’s how strongly I feel against taking the vaccine. All of my non-nursing who have had covid are covered and thriving. To me catching it isn’t the biggest deal but others have called me selfish because I could be spreading it to others. Why is it looked at as selfish for not wanting to inject something into MY body. #mybodymychoice
Am I thinking about this too much? What would you do?
I could eat vegetarian, take a statin, and do a less stressful sedentary job and probably exponentially increase my odds of living an additional year verses getting a covid vaccine.
Why is it I could do this positive thing healthwise versus Covid vaccine? Why not both? As a healthcare professional I believe that good health helps one live a happy life - whereas who can enjoy life to its fullest on a vent or with Covid sequela? We pursue healthful actions to pursue a better life, not to debate which, if limited to 1 or 2, I should do.
11 hours ago, myoglobin said:
However, no one is seriously considering making smoking illegal let alone shutting down our economy. Consider that in the last decade using these numbers there would have been well over four million deaths from smoking.
This argument has already been done and it didn't work the first, second or third time it was tried. Find something new.
I would completely understand and expect it to be mandate by healthcare facilities for their employees by the end of 2021. Much like the flu shot for many places.
I’m not really sure the statistics on how many healthcare facilities mandate the flu vaccine, the major city hospital I work in does not. However my nursing school did, but offered multiple reasons for making exceptions such as religion and allergies.
I work in the covid ICU and other ICU floors and there is a massive critical care nursing shortage. Critical care Nurses are being paid 5x their normal pay to accept contracts with other hospitals in the area. This is a historical shortage and a decent amount of nurses do not want the vaccine.
I think it’s logical to conclude that some facilities will make it mandatory while other facilities will not. Like supply and demand, employees are in high demand in healthcare facilities, and there is a significant amount of HCWs who don’t want to be mandated to take the vaccine. It’s a free way to aide in your facilities staffing crisis to offer the freedom of choice.
Also unionized hospitals are signing contracts (mine included) that protect workers from mandated vaccines.
I do see a lot of resentful people on here who explain they haven’t left their home all year which is quite the luxury many do not have. That resentment and fear you have been feeding into is starting to compromise your ethics. Frontline nurses have been put in some horrendous positions all year while being called “heros” ?and now they are being spitefully expected by their home residing peers to receive emergent vaccines that are not fda approved and have no long term studies. I’ll continue on the actual front lines and pass. That is just one more vaccine that can go to someone who wants it.
They were listed as Covid deaths so yes the numbers are inflated. If those two had the flu would they be counted as flu deaths?
I'm having a hard time believing a coroner who can't keep a mask over her nose:) IF she is correct, as the other guy said, the system of reporting needs to be changed. But so what? The above case looks like obvious stupidiy but we know that Covid stats are just NOT going to be accurate 100% of the time because it's really complicated for patients with serious co-mobidities to decide if this patient died from heart failure unrelated to Covid or heart failure related to Covid. All I know is that I would take with a grain of salt anything that goofy coroner said.
If masks and social distancing are the answer then why has almost every European country suffered a similar fate (repeated closings and lockdowns) despite more restrictive lockdowns and mask laws? The peer reviewed Danish study proved that masks have little (if any) protective effect on catching the Covid 19 virus https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/danish-study-doesnt-prove-masks-don't-work-against-the-coronavirus/ . However, it did not prove that masks don't help prevent it's spread (they probably do). However, the approach that I advise of lower risk people (under 65 without comorbidities) going back to work where necessary (working from home where possible) and providing better masks (N-95) and goggles/faceshields for more at risk individuals who desire to go out has never been attempted.
Look carefully at the wording of the fact check article: Danish study DOESN'T prove that masks DON'T work against the coronavirus. The corollary of this clumsily worded sentence is that the study proved masks DO work which, of course, wasn't the point of the study. The study's point is that they can't prove that masks don't work. I agree that, for the layman, this is a difficult study to understand. But you emphasize that people should nave N95 masks more available as a strategy. Well, how long do you think people can wear an N95 mask while working? How realistic is that. Even a KN95 (if you can even find the few manufacturers that are meeting the standards required to be called "95"), voices are muffled and you sweat around your mouth like it's July...even on the 45th parallel where it's 20 degrees outdoors. Yes, we did in in the OR's but they could only be tolerated for extremely short cases like a quick lung bx.
Look carefully at the wording of the fact check article: Danish study DOESN'T prove that masks DON'T work against the coronavirus. The corollary of this clumsily worded sentence is that the study proved masks DO work which, of course, wasn't the point of the study. The study's point is that they can't prove that masks don't work. I agree that, for the layman, this is a difficult study to understand. But you emphasize that people should nave N95 masks more available as a strategy. Well, how long do you think people can wear an N95 mask while working? How realistic is that. Even a KN95 (if you can even find the few manufacturers that are meeting the standards required to be called "95"), voices are muffled and you sweat around your mouth like it's July...even on the 45th parallel where it's 20 degrees outdoors. Yes, we did in in the OR's but they could only be tolerated for extremely short cases like a quick lung bx.
The study showed almost no difference in those gaining prevention on "catching" the virus (not statistically significant), but could not prove that masks don't help in reducing transmission to others. N95 would be a tool/option for those in the older more vulnerable groups who choose to go out (in addition to face shields). Keep in mind this virus is going to be with us for years. There is no conceivable way that the necessary percentage of the population will take the vaccine (to gain herd immunity) without regard to what I/we may think and wish. I think Barrington is a "starting point" we disagree as to its value (here is one of the better defenses https://rationalground.com/in-defense-of-the-great-barrington-declaration/ ), but does not go nearly far enough in offering protection to vulnerable groups (hence my approach of enhanced PPE and targeted mortgage/rent subsidies and grocery delivery paid for). Perhaps Finland has come to closest to implementing elements of this approach https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/how-finland-kept-covid-19-in-check-and-protected-its-economy-1.4364512 but it locked down more and provided less "targeted protection" than what I would advocate.
No one will likely make it compulsory until there is enough vaccine for everyone. Why force someone to get a vaccine when there aren't enough doses for the people who want it? Even then I say don't make it mandatory. Just remove all restrictions and lets the chips fall where they may. Of course, I don't get much say in the matter.
In the case you cited, no one was forced to accept a mandated vaccine. They were forced to pay a penalty to the government for noncompliance with a public health ordinance.
- well the issue to criminalize smoking is entirely a political one - and it is heavily taxed equaling state and federal revenue - also smoking does not cause death within weeks/months even years the way COVID would ...
I believe this precedent would uphold laws requiring vaccination. However, at the same time I believe these laws are unlikely. Furthermore, I doubt they would be implemented everywhere. Thus, someone might be able to move to Wyoming where these hypothetical future laws might be less likely to be passed or enforced than say Mass.. However, at the same time I think it is reasonable to be worried (if you work in healthcare) or even if you are a teacher, police officer or firefighter that you might be required to take this vaccine at some point in the next five years. Hence, my plan start my own "cash business" (no insurance) and move to Wyoming. Since, even my wife is more "go along to get along" than me I will probably be seeing clients in my camper trailer at the end of some travel road in some God forsaken backcountry Wyoming hell hole. Unlike me she isn't willing to give up a PMHNP career and work a job for minimum wage if that's what it takes to live our principles.
I believe this precedent would uphold laws requiring vaccination. However, at the same time I believe these laws are unlikely. Furthermore, I doubt they would be implemented everywhere. Thus, someone might be able to move to Wyoming where these hypothetical future laws might be less likely to be passed or enforced than say Mass.. However, at the same time I think it is reasonable to be worried (if you work in healthcare) or even if you are a teacher, police officer or firefighter that you might be required to take this vaccine at some point in the next five years. Hence, my plan start my own "cash business" (no insurance) and move to Wyoming. Since, even my wife is more "go along to get along" than me I will probably be seeing clients in my camper trailer at the end of some dirt road in some God forsaken backcountry Wyoming hell hole surrounded by three feet of snow and 80 mph winds.. Unlike me she isn't willing to give up a PMHNP career and work a job for minimum wage if that's what it takes to live our principles.
The study showed almost no difference in those gaining prevention on "catching" the virus (not statistically significant), but could not prove that masks don't help in reducing transmission to others. N95 would be a tool/option for those in the older more vulnerable groups who choose to go out (in addition to face shields). Keep in mind this virus is going to be with us for years. There is no conceivable way that the necessary percentage of the population will take the vaccine (to gain herd immunity) without regard to what I/we may think and wish. I think Barrington is a "starting point" we disagree as to its value (here is one of the better defenses https://rationalground.com/in-defense-of-the-great-barrington-declaration/ ), but does not go nearly far enough in offering protection to vulnerable groups (hence my approach of enhanced PPE and targeted mortgage/rent subsidies and grocery delivery paid for). Perhaps Finland has come to closest to implementing elements of this approach https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/how-finland-kept-covid-19-in-check-and-protected-its-economy-1.4364512 but it locked down more and provided less "targeted protection" than what I would advocate.
Finland did a rapid (operative word) fairly hard lockdown which has repeatedly been said on this thread to be the most expedient way to keep cases down. It's a small country where people tend to agree and people don't march with guns to the statehouse to express their outrage at their loss of "freedom." They don't have the obesity and poverty to the extent we have and they have a government which was willing and able to be prepared. You keep saying the same thing over and over again (Barrington plus) which is a complete contradiction to what they did in Finland, Korea, China or any other place that has been more successful than us.
I believe this precedent would uphold laws requiring vaccination. However, at the same time I believe these laws are unlikely. Furthermore, I doubt they would be implemented everywhere. Thus, someone might be able to move to Wyoming where these hypothetical future laws might be less likely to be passed or enforced than say Mass.. However, at the same time I think it is reasonable to be worried (if you work in healthcare) or even if you are a teacher, police officer or firefighter that you might be required to take this vaccine at some point in the next five years. Hence, my plan start my own "cash business" (no insurance) and move to Wyoming. Since, even my wife is more "go along to get along" than me I will probably be seeing clients in my camper trailer at the end of some travel road in some God forsaken backcountry Wyoming hell hole. Unlike me she isn't willing to give up a PMHNP career and work a job for minimum wage if that's what it takes to live our principles.
I believe this precedent would uphold laws requiring vaccination. However, at the same time I believe these laws are unlikely. Furthermore, I doubt they would be implemented everywhere. Thus, someone might be able to move to Wyoming where these hypothetical future laws might be less likely to be passed or enforced than say Mass.. However, at the same time I think it is reasonable to be worried (if you work in healthcare) or even if you are a teacher, police officer or firefighter that you might be required to take this vaccine at some point in the next five years. Hence, my plan start my own "cash business" (no insurance) and move to Wyoming. Since, even my wife is more "go along to get along" than me I will probably be seeing clients in my camper trailer at the end of some dirt road in some God forsaken backcountry Wyoming hell hole surrounded by three feet of snow and 80 mph winds.. Unlike me she isn't willing to give up a PMHNP career and work a job for minimum wage if that's what it takes to live our principles.
Your wife is sane. Who do you think is going to pay for the blessing of come to your trailer at the end of some hellish road in Wyoming and get psychological advice from you?
Your wife is sane. Who do you think is going to pay for the blessing of come to your trailer at the end of some hellish road in Wyoming and get psychological advice from you?
Probably the same ones who generate about 25K per month in income for me right now (about half are cash pay) online via the internet. I would do online telepsych. Maybe I would not prescribe controlled substances since that requires an in person visit after the Ryan Haight Act goes back in to effect (after Covid passes). Then, again if it was just me and my trailer I only need to earn maybe 5K per month rather than the money I earn now.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, myoglobin said:
Probably the same ones who generate about 25K per month in income for me right now (about half are cash pay) online via the internet. I would do online telepsych. Maybe I would not prescribe controlled substances since that requires an in person visit after the Ryan Haight Act goes back in to effect (after Covid passes). Then, again if it was just me and my trailer I only need to earn maybe 5K per month rather than the money I earn now.
OK
All because you are afraid that an employer might mandate a vaccine.
I'm guessing that you've researched the mental health business models for providing telehealth counseling in the low population density of Wyoming. Do your clients use an online payment option for cash payments?
All because you are afraid that an employer might mandate a vaccine.
I'm guessing that you've researched the mental health business models for providing telehealth counseling in the low population density of Wyoming. Do your clients use an online payment option for cash payments?
Credit card or they mail a check. Currently all of my clients are in other states even though I live in Florida. Also, I don't pursue collections, charge no show fees. If people don't pay I will eventually stop seeing them (although my record system is so poor they could probably go quite a while before I figured it out). At the end of the day as long as I make enough to pay my bills, and play my Battlefield 4 on my Ps4 I'm pretty happy. Such is the life of a borderline, autistic, ADHD individual. I don't need very much in order to maintain happiness. However, I won't be forced any more into taking vaccines that I do not want.
londonflo
3,002 Posts
Why is it I could do this positive thing healthwise versus Covid vaccine? Why not both? As a healthcare professional I believe that good health helps one live a happy life - whereas who can enjoy life to its fullest on a vent or with Covid sequela? We pursue healthful actions to pursue a better life, not to debate which, if limited to 1 or 2, I should do.
This argument has already been done and it didn't work the first, second or third time it was tried. Find something new.