I am an American.

[UnionRN2]

In the last staff meeting, NM states Dr. A has complained because the female nurses make eye contact with him. We were instructed to respect his (and other doctors) culture and NOT make eye contact or appear assertive. When asked to clarify assertive we were told assertive was "asking or suggesting something for the patients".

Excuse me! I am American and I am living in America! How come these doctors don't have to respect my culture? How come they don't have to respect me (I am a woman)?

Of course I will continue to make eye contact and I will continue to request things my patients need and I will continue to suggest things that the patient needs. I will continue to advocate for my patients. If the doc doesn't like it... tough crap. I live in America and have the rights afforded American women. I am not giving them up to stroke the ego of a bigot.

[Cul2]

"Just a quick question and I'm out. Eye contact making with starngers is considered rude in america believe it or not,esp on the New York metro."

Althought this is an extremely observant and interesting point -- I think you can't compare the subject of this thread with the New York subway, or any place where complete strangers are together as they move from one place to another. They have no commom mission, except perhaps to keep out of each other's way and/or respect each other's space. The situation we're talking about is people working together as a team, trying to accomplish a specific goal -- and, more importantly, doing this in reference to the health and possible life of another person. Granted, there are many sub cultures within our culture, and as a principle, those cultures must be respected. But look at it from the patient's point of view. I don't think many patients would want someone from an alien culture joining his or her health care team and then upsetting that team's ability to work smoothly together by demanding that alien cultural proactices be adopted to make him or her feel more comfortable. With a "team," it's not just about one person's comfort. It's about the teams ability to work together. There's got to be a give and take. Now, I'm not talking about discrimination, or treating someone from another culture poorly because they have different practices. I'm talking about what's best practice for the team culture within which that new person has become a part.

[nursel56]

Just a quick question and I'm out. Eye contact making with starngers is considered rude in america believe it or not,esp on the New York metro. Anyone who has ever been on one can tell you. Its extremaly uncomfortable making eye contact with strangers and it doesn't happen like many here say it happens. Sure in the middle of Montana you could do it but not too much New York,because you will get asked "what ya looking at?

This is also true of the Las Vegas Greyhound bus station, and probably several other larger city bus stations as well. There are a whole set of unwritten rules and you can actually get yourself in danger by "violating".

[Flying ICU RN]

"Just a quick question and I'm out. Eye contact making with starngers is considered rude in america believe it or not,esp on the New York metro."

No surprise there, make eye contact with a Pit Bull and it's sure to try and bite you.

[kty1]

Just a quick question and I'm out. Eye contact making with starngers is considered rude in america believe it or not,esp on the New York metro. Anyone who has ever been on one can tell you. Its extremaly uncomfortable making eye contact with strangers and it doesn't happen like many here say it happens. Sure in the middle of Montana you could do it but not too much New York,because you will get asked "what ya looking at?

I am one who looks away and I don't keep eye contact too long. I'm in a subculture of America and I notice whem dealing with other races they don't look you in the eye. Its not as common as people think.

I believe we are talking about eye contact when dealing on a one to one in our professions: dr to nurse, nurse to patient etc; not total strangers riding in a train. I think you lost the point of the first post.

When a nurse is speaking with a dr it is professional to look into the eye of the speaker. It is very rude in America to look another way while being spoken to or, speaking to others. For me, it was one of the many lessons learned from childhood called respect for others when being spoken to or reverse. I hope you received the same value when you were a child in America.

[kty1]

This is also true of the Las Vegas Greyhound bus station, and probably several other larger city bus stations as well. There are a whole set of unwritten rules and you can actually get yourself in danger by "violating".

Again off the original post, hower this statement is very true and I'm happy to comply if ever in such a situation. Just read a book and stay to yourself. lol,lol,..but true I'm sure!:yeah:

[kty1]

good point. cultures differ in ground rules, not just from country to country, but also from region to region. and who's to say which cultures are right, and which wrong?

very true, however, if you come to america then you are expected to respect the way our profession is. when i am talking with a doctor i expect him to give me the same respect he expects from me. look in the eye of the speaker. it's polite and it shows manners here in america. if i travel outside of america, i certainly follow and respect "their" rules. let's stick with the original post and that's when someone choses to come to america to practices they much read the packet given to them upon entering our country and respect our ways of doing things and respect the many women nurses who do a bang up job and need to be respected by anyone who comes to practice on america soil. let's stank up for what is right, because you know for sure if you go into another country they will be sure to make you follow their rules!!!!!:)

[kty1]

Good point. Cultures differ in ground rules, not just from country to country, but also from region to region. And who's to say which cultures are right, and which wrong?

This is not a case of who is right or wrong. When in America, do what is expect of you and that is use good sound values, morals and respect for others. When medical professionals (or anyone for that matter) come to America they receive a packet (as mentioned in my very earliest post) and they must understand our way of doing things and the respect women deserve in this country. We are NOT to look away when another male nurse or dr from another country is taking to us. Remember, they are on our turf and must respect our ways in America as we should when visiting anothers' homeland.

This is our America and this is where the ball stops in bowing down to another when we are in our own homeland. Enough is enough! When in "Rome do as the Romans do" it's really that simple.

[klone, MSN, RN]

This really has nothing to do with you being an American. Lots of Americans have the same culture this man does (who very likely may also be an American).

Call a spade a spade: the title should probably read "I'm a caucasian, European-American."

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

Oh, well now...the NYC subway is a whole other animal. I remember one time I was there, during the day, in business attire, and I turned towards a similarly attired man wearing a watch standing about 10 feet away from me on the platform to politely ask, "Excuse me, sir, do you know what time it is? He turned away and walked about 20 more feet from me. On that same day, I remember saying, "bless you" to a similarly dressed man when he sneezed as we, and a gazillion other people, were walking up the short set of steps from the subway onto the street. He turned briefly and glared at me.

That's how I learned not to look at or speak to anybody on the NYC subway...EVER.

Why is it then, that when I did the same thing, on the NYC subway/bus and had no problem with rudeness or glaring?

I was rather pleasantly surprised about the friendliness of many (though not all) NYCers in the year that I was there.

Honestly, I found Philadelphia, Boston more abrasive....and this is coming from a native Southerner.

[NocturneRN]

I believe we are talking about eye contact when dealing on a one to one in our professions: dr to nurse, nurse to patient etc; not total strangers riding in a train. I think you lost the point of the first post.

When a nurse is speaking with a dr it is professional to look into the eye of the speaker. It is very rude in America to look another way while being spoken to or, speaking to others. For me, it was one of the many lessons learned from childhood called respect for others when being spoken to or reverse. I hope you received the same value when you were a child in America.

z----You just pointed out that you learned this lesson in childhood. The doctor in question, being from a culture with different ground rules, obviously did not. He was conditioned, most likely from childhood, very differently----to regard direct eye contact as intrusive or even insolent.

Which reaction is "right"? There is no "right" here----just cultural norms. If the doctor is reacting out of cultural ignorance, then the best way to handle the problem, it seems to me, would be education. That can take time, because not only does he need to grasp the general rule, but also to learn to recognize when direct eye contact IS respectful in our culture, and when it's meant to show defiance or hostility.

It seems pointless, in my opinion, to judge this doctor too harshly, because we have no way of knowing the context of the conversation. It's possible that, once the cultural difference was explained to him, he made a bigger effort to be tolerant, and eventually learned to get along with the nursing staff. That's how most immigrants learn to adapt to a new culture: through trial and error, and being able to confide in natives, who can help them clear up misconceptions.

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

I was placed in a similar scenario recently. I had a male Middle Eastern CRNA who was getting ready to give Toradol to a pt who had an allergy to it-anaphylaxis. I work in the OR, and allergies are clearly written on a 4' whiteboard in the OR. I brought this to his attention JUST before he started to administer it. Thank GOD I was in the room, because I heard him tell the surgeons "I am going to give the Toradol now (toradol is the drug of choice during this procedure). He was obviously not paying attention to the pt allergies, and when I told him to not give it, he gave me this look like I had just cut off his right hand! He pulled me aside and told me to NEVER question him in front of the surgeons again, because I was a female and the surgeons were male, and it was a matter of pride for him. I told him in the most professional way that I could that I am HERE FOR THE PATIENT, and I am A PATIENT ADVOCATE, and if he didn't pay attention to what he was doing, I would be damned if I was going to sit by and let him harm my patient, no matter WHAT my DNA make-up was!

[smartnurse1982]

I believe we are talking about eye contact when dealing on a one to one in our professions: dr to nurse, nurse to patient etc; not total strangers riding in a train. I think you lost the point of the first post.

When a nurse is speaking with a dr it is professional to look into the eye of the speaker. It is very rude in America to look another way while being spoken to or, speaking to others. For me, it was one of the many lessons learned from childhood called respect for others when being spoken to or reverse. I hope you received the same value when you were a child in America.

I don't understand the need to be rude. I'm just trying to point out even in the Usa cultural norms differ. For instance,do you say Ma'am after addressing an older woman? If you go to the south and don't use it,you'd be considered rude.

Someone pointed out to "do as thr romans do" quote. Well,in America,who are the romans?