Helping patients kill themselves

[Cwoods]

Colorado is now the 5th state to adopt a form of physician-assisted suicide.

O' wait, I said that the wrong way... "Death with dignity" or "Right to die"

What do you think about the law?

Will it, at some point in the future, fall into NPs hands?

Apparently, insurance companies in California feel great about denying a terminally ill mother costly chemo tx and offering to subsidize a life-ending treatment for $1.20.

Can you imagine? I could potentially extend my life, again for my children, for a few months but bankrupt my family or I could end it all for the cost of a cheeseburger...

Assisted-suicide law prompts insurance company to deny coverage to terminally ill California woman - Washington Times

[BSN16]

Obviously you have never taken care of patients who are truly suffering and death would be a gift for them. There are WORSE things than death. And you shouldn't shame people who are done fighting because you disagree with it.

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

Very timely topic....interesting responses.

Because of my pt population, I frequently deal with end of life issues and withdrawal from life support. It is always a hard decision for pts/families (as it should be) but agree with others that state that sometimes life with no quality of life is not worth living and pts/families should be given the choice in a non-biased manner.

[Ladyscrubs]

I have attached two links, one is the Washington State Initiative 1000 and the other of an organization that is a resource—End of Life Washington. I hope…one day…in Ohio.

Death with Dignity Act :: Washington State Department of Health

End of Life Washington

[annabanana2]

Medical assistance in dying is now available in Canada and I am starting to have clients interested in it, and one that has taken advantage of it (he died last weekend). There are a number of checks and balances in place to try to ensure that folks are competent to make the decision and are not being coerced in any way. NPs can provide MAID in my province in the same ways that a physician can. They can determine eligibility for the procedure, prescribe the medications required, and administer the medication if that's how the client wants it done. Since it is very new, I don't know of any NPs yet who are doing so (not to say there aren't any, just that I don't know them), but I am sure that will change.

If an NP objects to participating in the assessment or the procedure itself, like physicians, they are required to make an "effective transfer" to another provider who can provide the service.

[delawaremalenurse]

I think you're projecting your values and beliefs unto others. It's hard to say what another will do when faced with a terminal illness, agonizing pain, incontinence, bedsores, sepsis, multiple system organ failure, etc. until it actually happens to you and you're forced to make life determining decisions.

Some will choose quantity at all costs (i.e. do whatever if it gives me another month, 6 mos, etc.). Others will choose quality over quantity and spend their final moments with their loved ones as they choose without being tethered to drug treatments.

Either choice is viable. Either choice is highly personal. And either choice should be respected so long as it is made based on being informed and knowledgeable about treatment choices and outcomes.

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

Only downside could be insurance companies trying to hand this stuff out like candy to save $$$$$$$$$$.

gotta keep their hands out of the pot because you know what they will choose for everybody that has some chronic condition.

The benefits on working in a healthcare system that is not profit driven.

My mum is currently undergoing her second round of palliative chemo, giving up has never been an option for her and those treating her when she worried about wasting resources told her in no uncertain terms that as long as the treatment had benefits for her they continue to offer it.

I found this interesting reading

https://public.health.oregon.gov/ProviderPartnerResources/EvaluationResearch/DeathwithDignityAct/Documents/year18.pdf

I support the right of a person who is of sound body and mind and able to express their wishes to choose in the event of illness how they choose to exit. I believe that there needs to be major protections in place to protect those who have no ability to express their wishes

[AliNajaCat]

1) Don't like abortion? Don't have one.

2) Don't like to welcome death? Don't do it.

3) As for the rest of it, your choices are not necessarily mine, your reasons are not necessarily mine, and I'll thank you to take your assumptions about "mandatory" vis-a-vis PAS and abortion somewhere else ( see 1) and 2) above)..

[purplegal]

My thought is that patients who are in considerable amount of pain and with diseases that will never be curable should have the right to choose whether or not they want to continue treatment or measures that will help end their pain. With that being said, I don't think that I would be able to participate in any procedure or administering any drug knowing that it would end another person's life. It is just something that makes me feel uneasy. However, I do admire those that are able to look beyond their own personal feelings and provide compassion to these patients that have decided that their quality of life is no longer satisfactory.

[offlabel]

1) Don't like abortion? Don't have one.

2) Don't like to welcome death? Don't do it.

3) As for the rest of it, your choices are not necessarily mine, your reasons are not necessarily mine, and I'll thank you to take your assumptions about "mandatory" vis-a-vis PAS and abortion somewhere else ( see 1) and 2) above)..

1. Want an abortion? Ask someone else to help...don't force me.

2.Want to commit suicide? Knock yourself out...don't make me participate.

3. As for "choice", when someone has to change jobs because they won't participate in someone else's "choice", there ain't no "choice".

If the European model is any indication, we can expect coerced participation by unwilling providers here. Google it.

And as to the assumption that anyone who sees PAS as problematic clearly has never seen anyone suffer at the end of their life, a more offensive and presumptuous accusation could not be made.

There is no reason at all, with all of the pain techniques and agents available today, that anyone at all need suffer to the extent that is being presumed here. If there is intractable and unbearable pain it isn't because there isn't any more to be done.

[That Guy, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

Much rather it be by this than the myriad of other ways I have seen people try and succeed/fail. Our whole society deals with death in all aspects terribly and suicide is certainly one of them.

[G33L]

I'm not a nurse yet (omw), but I don't think its necessarily all bad. As you laid it out, when money is involved it seems absolutely disgusting how anyone could offer somebody their death instead of needed care. However, when I think of "assisted suicide" I think of someone who has lived a long life, enjoyed their family and now is under great pain or maybe none at all, but in an undesirable state for both the patient and the family. Providing someone in said situation with the alternative to stop the pain instead of using resources to extend it seems like a better alternative. But... giving someone the "option" to either pay up to get better or just end it? That's just horrible.

[jmjlori]

that is EXACTLY what happened my friend's sister in California. She was being treated for an aggressive cancer. And then treatment came up again for evaluation. The insurance denied treatment, but said they'd pay for the medicine to end her life. :-(