50 out of 100 Nursing students failed program - page 3
At my school 50 out of 100 nursing students failed thier first semester. They didnt make it. Geeze is nursing school that hard. I get really good grades but is it really that hard? These students... Read More
Mar 30, '07Quote from lizzyetteKeep in mind, though, that just because you have a 4.0 in your prerequisites does not mean that you will succeed in nursing school. Most people that got in had close to a 4.0, but only about half of us passed.I have a 4.0. If they do not let me in this program I will poo a brick. I will go to the nursing department and demand my spot in the program. I want to be in the program sooo bad. I hope they would not give my spot to someone who just slipped their way in!!!:angryfire
Mar 30, '07Quote from 1tulipi'm not disagreeing that what we are training to do is serious, back-breaking, life-or-death type of stuff...certainly wanting to be a nurse is a necessary criteria for success. but it ought not to be a deciding factor in determining who graduates from nursing school if wanting to be something was the criteria for realizing a dream, i'd be an opera diva today. (actually... i have sung at the metropolitan opera. no lie. i was in the ladies room washing my hands and hummed a few bars of donizetti.)
but seriously... nursing school has got to be hard.
my concern lies more in a situation that happened to me last semester -- my first semester.
i'd maybe been in the clinical setting maybe 3 or 4 times. never worked in health care or was on the user end of a stethoscope or sphygmomanometer[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif] in my life prior to last august. we had a checkout several weeks before for heart/lung sounds (crackles, wheezes, pleural rubs primarily). you listen to a couple of tapes and if you can "guess" correctly in a checkout, then off you go to assess pts!! (because that's a lot of what it is at that point; you're petrified as they're throwing so many things at you one right after the other!)
i get in the hospital and have a pt in late-stage lung cancer, with pneumonia and god-knows-what-else going on in his chest. i can't hear a heart sound to save my life over everything else. i asked my clinical instructor, if when she had a minute would she come help me discern what all i was hearing.
she exploded. asked if i had even bothered to listen. i felt like a 2 year old. i didn't know that that early in my nursing career i was supposed to be a heart/lung expert and honestly considered walking out the door that day and never returning. i was obviously inept, incompetent, and maybe even hard of hearing (lol). but i stuck it out, and after another request, she very irritatedly came in and pointed out what i was hearing. ah-ha!! among my other concerns was the fact that i have to chart and sign my assessment. i'm supposed to chart my best guess or bs?!? i don't work like that.
fast forward to second semester. we're working with the human simulator in the lab and he's making all "kindy" weird noises in his chest. i asked the second semester instructors that were around us if we were expected to know all the sounds we were or were not hearing. their response?
"no, you need to know when what you hear isn't normal at this point, and let someone know."
well, hot dog. i might actually stick around this semester. my ci answers our questions and helps us out. she has reminded us many times as we beat ourselves up on clinical evaluations that we are students (most of us 40+ in our group). she has been clear, that if we were 4th semester students, she might have some real concerns, but she knows we are learning.
that's where i think some of these "instructors" are missing the boat. give us a *******' chance. if we're idiots, then give us the boot. personally, i'd want to know sooner rather than later. but if i've got the potential to be a productive, positive asset to the world of nursing, then give me that shot, too, huh? and teach me....Last edit by WDWpixieRN on Mar 30, '07
Mar 30, '07Quote from dazey71I understand that but Im so motivated to be a nurse not to just get a 4.0. I will do whatever if I have to, stay up till 3:00am I will. I want this soo bad.Keep in mind, though, that just because you have a 4.0 in your prerequisites does not mean that you will succeed in nursing school. Most people that got in had close to a 4.0, but only about half of us passed.
Mar 30, '07when I was in nursing school we started out with 120 students and only 32 graduated. Only 1 was male.
Mar 31, '07In contrast a geek entering the Computer Science program will probably be a geek when he graduates...
I have read and heard people say Nursing is different from any major they have taken in the past. I look forward to learning what this means and what makes it so difficult this coming Fall when I start Nursing school.
Mar 31, '07My experience as an educator has taught me that many students who fail had sabotaged themselves. They missed class, they did not come to class prepared, they assumed that problems at home somehow made them exempt from the standards set for all students, etc. It is hard to be and adult with adult responsiblities and also be a student. People who do not know how to properly study or prioritize their activities will have difficulty. A study partner helps, if that partner is equally dedicated to the task and does not waste your time. Nursing school is not high school. Ask your instructors for help in knowing how/when to study.
Apr 1, '07Quote from kukukajooFrom what I've seen around these boards, 50% is about the going passing rate around the country. What kind of person allows themselves to get into such a program? The ones who want to become nurses, regardless of the odds.This is wrong on so many levels! Who would send their kid or their money to a place that that they have less than 50% chance of making it???? It does not make any sense?
In my program there are only 15, but ALL are passing since the beginning of the year. Yeah there have been some scary moments, but instructors are here to help us learn AND succeed. Not everyone learns the same way and the instructors know this and teach so that everyone is accomodated.
Great instructors & programs will do everything they can to keep students and help them flourish, not "weed out" students.
Some students lack study skills, some lack time management, some lack test taking skills, some lack confidence, etc., etc., etc. The list goes on. There are some clearly identifiable reasons why one may do poorly without direction, and it should be up to the instructors to find those reasons and teach the skills needed for success.
My own school had exactly half the number of students in the first semester at the end of the first semester that we did in the beginning. Throughout the rest of the program, more came in (who had failed previous semesters, or transferred) and more failed. I figured that we had about 150 students going through our program in the span of 2 years, and 60 graduated at the end.
From my own perspective, the ones who failed didn't lack direction or teaching time; we all got the same. What we DID with that direction and time, however, made all the difference in whether or not we passed exams and skill evaluations.
If the desire to become a nurse were the overriding deciding factor, we'd have seen way many more graduates than there actually were. Academics and ability to perform skills adequately, as well as that intangible "people factor" make the difference.
Apr 1, '07Another factor maybe, a lot of people are changing careers to nursing. People are older, have families and are trying work all at the same time. If you do not have the finances to allow you just to attend school, it makes it that much more difficult. I have to admire the people who succeed under those conditions.
Apr 1, '07Quote from norcalRNstudentDo you happen to go to Cabrillo, I am first semester there and the support I am getting is wonderful. It sounds like we are fortunate to have such supportive schools.Sounds like your school doesn't care how many nurses they produce. No one has failed out of my program, and it is definitely not easy, the school is just supportive, and makes sure that we are well prepared before we can apply.
Apr 2, '07We've lost about nine classmates since October. The thing that p*ssed me off was a couple of them really worked hard in this one class (assessment) and didn't pass by less than a POINT. (any less than 78% is failing) This particular instructor told us right from the beginning that "they don't call me The Terminator" for nothing". I mean, I can see if someone really failed badly, but less than a single point? If I were the instructor, I'd give the student an extra-credit paper to write or something for that needed point. Or wash my car, walk my dog... you know??? ;-) Something! It's like she takes pleasure in failing people... students that I could see were/are going to be good nurses someday.
Ok.. end of rant.
My school brags about it's 100% NCLEX pass rate, also. Hmmm.
Apr 2, '07[quote=purplemania;2136280]My experience as an educator has taught me that many students who fail had sabotaged themselves. They missed class, they did not come to class prepared, they assumed that problems at home somehow made them exempt from the standards set for all students, etc. quote]
I agree, but if 50% fail... it isn't the students fault. Teaching is simple. say this is what you need to know, tell them, and then summarize in the end. I'll bet my next $0.02 that the above didn't happen if 50% failed.Last edit by Darth Nightingale on Apr 2, '07
Apr 2, '07i am so glad i'm not alone in my thoughts! it seems too many nursing schools take pride in their failure rate. they should be ashamed of it!!!
does anybody else wonder if this attitude that begins in school is what eventually leads to the horizontal emotional/verbal abuse that occurs in the workplace?
to me it just sounds like a big "power trip." thank goodness for nursing schools that operate as described below (it was similar to mine).
i think that any instructors who go into the beginning nursing classes stating that "50% of you are going to flunk out by the end of this term" or "only 60% of you are going to pass the nclex" ought to have their head examined and fired. that kind of negative thinking is absolutely abominable. they should be watched for rulers and the smacking of the knuckles of students hands for giving wrong answers. beatings and fear, yeah, that works wonders--not. that kind of mentality is a game of ego and one-upmanship for the perpetrators of the game (the instructors). what kind of professionalism and collegiality is that teaching future nurses? how can a profession permit hypocrites to train people for a profession that asks nurses to first be kind to others? there's something wrong with that picture. but, the problem is that so many want a career in nursing so badly that they will willingly put up with this kind of abuse just to get through the training. maybe it's time some of us older nurses started a movement to stop these abuses from occurring.
i was very fortunate. i was in a basic nursing program that said once you are admitted you are guaranteed at least a "b" as long as you keep up with the work. you could flunk a test, but you had to keep taking it (a different form of it) until you passed it. we were seen by our own personal nursing instructor/counselor every single week in a private session where we discussed our progress in the program and got individual advice or emotional support if needed. every single person who started in my program, finished and we all passed the state board exam (no nclex at that time) the first time around. you could feel the love and support for every single student in this program![/quote]
Apr 2, '07I agree with many of you that a school should be more ashamed of failure then proud. On the other hand, if the failure rate shows powerful NCLEX scores, then I don't know what to say. It is my understanding that schools can lose accreditation for low NCLEX scores not high failure rates.
By the way, my school does not discuss openly the failure rate. In fact, many of the instructors (and advisors) side-step the issue because he/she wishes to encourage students to succeed. Thus, we students hunt for failure rates by asking each other.
So far I have found that the class of May 2006 had a high failure rate but graduated with others that failed previous classes or bridged in as LPN-RN. In doing so, it is hard to pin down numbers for accuracy. However, people I have spoke with that started in Fall 2005 told me that the "original students" were only 40% of the class; 60% failed sometime over the four semesters.
I also took unofficial surveys from students of prior years and in more advanced semesters and found that it is not uncommon to lose 2-6 students per semester. A few positive facts are that people fail for a variety of reasons and usually for more then one incident unless the student violates scope of practice and/or caused harmed to a patient. Therefore I am no longer afraid of the stats regarding failure rates. Failure is the student's fault; at least in my school.