50 out of 100 Nursing students failed program

Darth Nightingale · Apr 2, 2007

My experience as an educator has taught me that many students who fail had sabotaged themselves. They missed class, they did not come to class prepared, they assumed that problems at home somehow made them exempt from the standards set for all students, etc. quote]
I agree, but if 50% fail... it isn't the students fault. Teaching is simple. say this is what you need to know, tell them, and then summarize in the end. I'll bet my next $0.02 that the above didn't happen if 50% failed.

leosrain, BSN, RN · Apr 2, 2007

i am so glad i'm not alone in my thoughts! it seems too many nursing schools take pride in their failure rate. they should be ashamed of it!!!

does anybody else wonder if this attitude that begins in school is what eventually leads to the horizontal emotional/verbal abuse that occurs in the workplace?

to me it just sounds like a big "power trip." thank goodness for nursing schools that operate as described below (it was similar to mine).

sean

i think that any instructors who go into the beginning nursing classes stating that "50% of you are going to flunk out by the end of this term" or "only 60% of you are going to pass the nclex" ought to have their head examined and fired. that kind of negative thinking is absolutely abominable. they should be watched for rulers and the smacking of the knuckles of students hands for giving wrong answers. beatings and fear, yeah, that works wonders--not. that kind of mentality is a game of ego and one-upmanship for the perpetrators of the game (the instructors). what kind of professionalism and collegiality is that teaching future nurses? how can a profession permit hypocrites to train people for a profession that asks nurses to first be kind to others? there's something wrong with that picture. but, the problem is that so many want a career in nursing so badly that they will willingly put up with this kind of abuse just to get through the training. maybe it's time some of us older nurses started a movement to stop these abuses from occurring.

i was very fortunate. i was in a basic nursing program that said once you are admitted you are guaranteed at least a "b" as long as you keep up with the work. you could flunk a test, but you had to keep taking it (a different form of it) until you passed it. we were seen by our own personal nursing instructor/counselor every single week in a private session where we discussed our progress in the program and got individual advice or emotional support if needed. every single person who started in my program, finished and we all passed the state board exam (no nclex at that time) the first time around. you could feel the love and support for every single student in this program!

SummerGarden, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 3, 2007

I agree with many of you that a school should be more ashamed of failure then proud. On the other hand, if the failure rate shows powerful NCLEX scores, then I don't know what to say. It is my understanding that schools can lose accreditation for low NCLEX scores not high failure rates.

By the way, my school does not discuss openly the failure rate. In fact, many of the instructors (and advisors) side-step the issue because he/she wishes to encourage students to succeed. Thus, we students hunt for failure rates by asking each other.

So far I have found that the class of May 2006 had a high failure rate but graduated with others that failed previous classes or bridged in as LPN-RN. In doing so, it is hard to pin down numbers for accuracy. However, people I have spoke with that started in Fall 2005 told me that the "original students" were only 40% of the class; 60% failed sometime over the four semesters.

I also took unofficial surveys from students of prior years and in more advanced semesters and found that it is not uncommon to lose 2-6 students per semester. A few positive facts are that people fail for a variety of reasons and usually for more then one incident unless the student violates scope of practice and/or caused harmed to a patient. Therefore I am no longer afraid of the stats regarding failure rates. Failure is the student's fault; at least in my school.

amybethf · Apr 3, 2007

I start my program this Fall; I postponed a year to finish co-req's and let my kids get a year older so I can manage my time better. But I know that the dean of my school at orientation takes the militarisitic attitude: 50% will not make it past the first year. Yeah, thanks for the positive outlook! I also know that out of the 200 that began last Aug., only 91 are left. But they have a 100% NCLEX pass rate. As a student told me, they want u to earn the right to sit at the boards. I think schools stand to make a lot of money in that first year and that's atrocious to me. Acceptance is not based solely on GPA, but as long as u have a 2.7, you're in. The attrition rate encompasses many reasons but I think the older instructors bear a responsibility in it. I think students deserve support not apathy.

dijaqrn · Apr 3, 2007

Hang on a sec.....

We had a mandatory math test every rotation with 3-4 extra tutoring sessions available prior to the test.... tests were not hard (d/h) but people still failed, automatic "bye-bye" after a second attempt. Our class also lost people who failed theory by 1 point and we too needed a 78 to pass....

Our class of 35 graduated 24 all of whom have passed NCLEX. 6 of the 11 repeated their rotations and are graduating now. 1 of the others failed Med Surg twice albeit by narrow margins of 3 points both times and they're letting her repeat it again. We all knew the 100% pass criteria for the math tests and we all had lots of support from the faculty who were available for tutoring etc. Only one person had personal problems, the rest just failed. It's really hard to blame the school in this instance. Sometimes people just think they're exempt from the rules and don't apply themselves. It may also be that nursing is far less romantic and a lot more of a challenge than some students think.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Apr 3, 2007

Engineering programs also have a high drop-out/failure rate. My son lasted 6 weeks, realized it wasn't for him. Only 40% students left at end of initial class first semester freshman year.

Some schools work harder than others to motivate students for success. Those are the programs to look for IMHO.

caliotter3 · Apr 3, 2007

In response to the last sentence of NRSKarenRNs previous post:

Unfortunately there is no way, other than word of mouth, a limited means, to find out which programs promote success. My program had a retention coordinator position. I never would have known that prior to getting admitted to the program. Her efforts and success/failure in keeping students was not a matter of information because her existence was not a matter of information. I wonder how many programs even have such a person on their staff.

ORRocksRN · Jan 27, 2008

I think that is so frigging sad. To my way of thinking it is a testament to the poor administration of the nursing school. The people in charge of the nursing program are either not making good choices in student candidates for the nursing program, or the instructors within their nursing program suck. I wouldn't want to be the Dean of your school telling me that only 50% of the students made it through the first semester of their program. I'd have him/her in a corner firing some pretty pointed questions. He/she would be slinking off ASAP with a red face when I was done with him/her. What the heck is mentally wrong with the administration and instructors in the schools that do this?

Great question!! I'm wondering that myself after getting canned with a 4.0 GPA and only 4 months to go in my program.

jelly221,RN · Jan 27, 2008

In my school, they give priority to indistrict students first. They turned down someone out of district with a 4.0! They accepted a student that was indistrict with a 2.5!! I think thats where the problem is.

Yeah, I'm in the exact same boat. I'm applying to 3 different programs, and they all give preference based on who's taken at least 12 hours at their school.... Well shoot I can't take A&P 3 times!! But if I got an A in it, shouldn't they want me? :idea:

jelly221,RN · Jan 27, 2008

We've lost about nine classmates since October. The thing that p*ssed me off was a couple of them really worked hard in this one class (assessment) and didn't pass by less than a POINT. (any less than 78% is failing) This particular instructor told us right from the beginning that "they don't call me The Terminator" for nothing". I mean, I can see if someone really failed badly, but less than a single point? If I were the instructor, I'd give the student an extra-credit paper to write or something for that needed point. Or wash my car, walk my dog... you know??? ;-) Something! It's like she takes pleasure in failing people... students that I could see were/are going to be good nurses someday.
Ok.. end of rant.
My school brags about it's 100% NCLEX pass rate, also. Hmmm.

Out of curiosity... where do you go? I have a friend at Alabama who has a very similar story, the 78% and lots failing by half a point, etc.

mrs.captain.kangaroo · Jan 27, 2008

We've lost about nine classmates since October. The thing that p*ssed me off was a couple of them really worked hard in this one class (assessment) and didn't pass by less than a POINT. (any less than 78% is failing) This particular instructor told us right from the beginning that "they don't call me The Terminator" for nothing". I mean, I can see if someone really failed badly, but less than a single point? If I were the instructor, I'd give the student an extra-credit paper to write or something for that needed point. Or wash my car, walk my dog... you know??? ;-) Something! It's like she takes pleasure in failing people... students that I could see were/are going to be good nurses someday.
Ok.. end of rant.
My school brags about it's 100% NCLEX pass rate, also. Hmmm.

Your instructor sounds like she has a lousy attitude but as for the extra credit....our instructors told us that the BON is very strict about letting them give any extra points for projects, etc. as the BON considers it grade padding and not allowed.

future L&Dnurse · Jan 27, 2008

We started out with around 70 students (I forget how many exactly) and have lost about 5 total, and we graduate in May.

BUT there were hundreds of applicants who didn't get in. The application process was extremely selective and in-depth, so I'm not very surprised that a lot of us are still here. They really didn't let ANYONE in that they didn't think could do it. Our school has a high NCLEX pass rate, too - I think it was 95% last year.