Why the nurses get no respect...

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Hello, everyone.

I know this topic has been severely beaten, but its not dead yet because so many of us are still talking about it. I thought I would share my opinions and I invite everyone to comment, whether you agree with me or not.

I'm working on a BSN degree, which I expect to complete by summer '04. After that I intend to work as an RN for a year and then apply to grad school to do the CRNA program. Yes, I'm one of 'those' people who went ahead and did a nursing degree despite all the MANY negative things I heard about nursing as a career. BUT... I've been working as a volunteer in a local hospital, and from what I have observed, it IS true that physicians and NPs look down on nurses. But, it is also true that a lot of what has happened to the nursing profession is due to the attitudes and behavior of some of the nurses themselves.

First of all, I can tell from talking to some of the nurses at my hospital that they barely made it through nursing school and probably passed the NCLEX by less than a hair. Even as a student, I am shocked at some of the things I've seen some RNs do and at some of the questions they ask...stuff that any first year nursing student should know. If even I, as a nursing student, can observe these things, then surely the doctors also do. And, this is one of the reasons some of them think most nurses are idiots and little more than patient care techs. I've only been a volunteer in this hospital for 6 months and already I can tell the good nurses from the bad ones.

Another thing I've observed is that many nurses complain, complain, complain...about everything and wherever they can find an audience. They complain about the pay, the patients, the doctors, the administration...you name it. I've always wondered why these people got into the profession in the first place. They always use the same cliches...Plumbers make more, landscapers make more, etc. Anyone who really loves nursing will agree that it takes a lot more to be a nurse than it does to be a plumber or a gardener. For one thing, to be a good nurse you have to care more about helping people than about making a buck. In fact, to be really good at any profession you have to care more about your competence and reputation than about making a lot of money. I think a lot of nurses don't understand this.

I've seen some nurses who're so miserable when they come on the floor most times that I wonder why they bother. I've always believed that if you don't like what you're doing then you should find another way to make a living and stop creating more stress for yourself. I'm not yet an RN, and obviously as a volunteer I'm not making ANY money from helping take care of people in the hospital, but its experience that I'll need later and I don't get stressed out by it because I actually like helping people.

Also, some nurses don't take themselves seriously but they expect doctors to respect them anyway. In the old days, nurses used to wear immaculate white uniforms that were ironed, and they also wore clean white shoes. They wore conservative and neatly groomed hair, short cut nails, and they were spotless all around. Nurses were in very much the same supporting role back then but doctors did not look down on them the way they do now. Everyone used to look up to that spotless white uniform as a symbol of health and authority, and nursing used to be one of the most highly respected careers.

But look at what's happened. SCRUBS!!! In the ugliest and most shocking colors and prints, and with a pair of smelly, dirty sneakers to match. Not to mention the outrageous hairstyles and the long, acrylic fingernails to match. Compare the matronly-looking nurse from the 1950s in her glorious white uniform to today's nurse in his/her cheap cotton scrubs. Which one looks more like a circus act? Which one looks more like a healthcare professional? And we're wondering why people don't see nurses as professionals!!! Yes, appearance matters, and to prove it, put a lab coat on any nurse and throw a stethescope around his or her neck and see whether most patients won't assume that she/he is a doctor.

Then there's attitude. I've seen nurses who flat out refuse to go back to school to learn new stuff, always holding on tight only to what they know. They resist change and complain when they have to learn new technology that comes into the hospital. Some of them love to stand around backstabbing each other and gossipping, and they say the nastiest things about other nurses who take their work seriously.

I encourage anyone who's thinking about going into nursing to volunteer a few hours each week in a hospital and watch how the RNs and the LPNs do their stuff, just to get an idea of what to expect from the career. If after doing that you still feel like giving nursing a try, then just do it and stop paying attention to other people who say negative things about nursing. Every career has stress, and very few people you ask (no matter what profession they're in) will ever say they make "enough" money. I don't think nurses will ever be paid "enough" money for what they do, but one thing I've learned is that nursing is absolutely the wrong career choice if you're doing it just for the money.

I think nursing can once again become a respected profession when some of us in the field start to respect ourselves and each other a lot more than we do now.

Specializes in ICU.
Originally posted by dwoodruff

The original post was quite informative for me. It kind of gave me an outsiders view of what many of us are all too used to.

A couple of points should be reiterated:

1) many nurses don't think of themselves as nor act as professionals.

2) many nurses aren't worried about keeping up-to-date or maintaining their professional knowledge.

Fortunately, these things can be easily corrected. But, it is necessary that our management insists on it and that the nurses follow through.

BTW, I have no trouble getting respect from physicians, NPs, PAs, etc. It wasn't always this way. I learned early in my career that if I want them to respect me, I had better know what I was talking about. Experience does not replace knowledge!

Just my 2 cents.

David Woodruff, MSN, RN, CNS, CCRN

Ed4Nurses, Inc.

Nursing Continuing Education

I am glad you feel able to express this opinion but the big stick approach never really works rather than getting management to "insist upon it" it is better if we can encourage self motivation and empowerment. All too often I have seen education used as a magic wand to cure all ills. No attempt to analyse the problem - no attempt to determeine wherther or not it is even an educational problem just throw the staff into a room and lecture to them - problem solved.

Typically it may be decided that short staffing is really caused by nurses not "organising thier workloads correctly" and an educational session would be set up to address this but in truth the workloads may be VERY dangerous. Read some of the threads on this board. One nurse a couple of weeks ago talked of how as a graduate she was trying to cover 15 telemetry patients!!! No amount of reorgnisation will address that deficit and it is insulting to expect her to welcome a session on how to better organise her day. When she/he complains that this is not appropriate he/she is told that tehy are "resistant to change" and "unwilling to learn"

You say that experience does not replace knowledge well I will have to disagree with you on this point also. Please do not belittle experiential learning and practice wisdom. Admittedly they are not and should not be the only foundation of knowledge but niether should empirical knowledge be the sole support of our practice.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Actually I believe in a simple tenet: education coupled WITH experience are an UNBEATABLE combination. I don't see one as more important than the other. AND "follow-through" (as you put it) are the responbility of BOTH management and staff, Dave Woodruff. Too often, I see it fail on BOTH sides, creating a REAL accountability problem. So, your post is part-right in my eyes, but leaves much out of the whole picture. But it's your opinion and you certainly have a right to it......

A big Hee to Mattsmom - too funny and true :roll

I see from Dave's history that he enjoys stirring up trouble. Maybe law would be a better profession? Maybe Tony is Dave?

I hear there is a sale at Linen World. Dave - run, don't walk, and touch and sniff the nice, clean, white linens :wink2:

Actually I believe in a simple tenet: education coupled WITH experience are an UNBEATABLE combination. I don't see one as more important than the other. AND "follow-through" (as you put it) are the responbility of BOTH management and staff, Dave Woodruff. Too often, I see it fail on BOTH sides, creating a REAL accountability problem. So, your post is part-right in my eyes, but leaves much out of the whole picture. But it's your opinion and you certainly have a right to it......

Well said. One just is incomplete without the other. And as another poster said, you can't blame all problems on lack of education. You can educate until the cows come home but its not going to make up for inadequate staffing levels, or a lack of supplies, and so on. Education goes only so far.

Specializes in Step down, ICU, ER, PACU, Amb. Surg.
Originally posted by gwenith

Typically it may be decided that short staffing is really caused by nurses not "organising thier workloads correctly" ......but in truth the workloads may be VERY dangerous. .......... One nurse a couple of weeks ago talked of how as a graduate she was trying to cover 15 telemetry patients!!! No amount of reorgnisation will address that deficit and it is insulting to expect her to welcome a session on how to better organise her day. When she/he complains that this is not appropriate he/she is told that tehy are "resistant to change" and "unwilling to learn"

I have been in this situation. It is not a comfortable nor pleasant one. It makes a person dread and hate, yes I said HATE, their job....to know that when you walk through the doors of your place of employment and know that you are going to be working with 1 other RN, an LPN and a CNA on a 47 bed unit that is most likely 100% full and that you know damn well you are the only one on that unit qualified to read telemetry monitors and have your night DON assign you the back half of the unit (which means you are covering the LPNs patients as well as your own -and this is not meant to be derogatory to my fellow LPNs for woth out you, some nights would have never ended- AND covering the 14 tele beds with out being able to clearly view the monitors). You may ask, well why did you not report the unsafe staffing to the Nurse manager or ask for extra help....well I did every night I walked in and saw the assignment for the night, I did and I was told by the nurse manager...."Your concern is noted, sorry no help" Tony, you say it sounds like burn out......you say you will no longer defend a nurse that could care less about professionalism or do not comply with the dress code. I will ask you as another did, will you defend those that do care?? will you defend those that do abide by the rules?? What you dub as complaining and burn out is a frusterated nurse who has tried to voice concern in the past and has been beat down by management, had the very depths of her professiona morals and ethics pushed beyond the envelope....if you truely do stand up for the nurses that play by thr rules and follow professional dress code, I say BRAVO! and that it would be a pleasure to have you as a nurse manager...if you don't....well, then I question why you do not leave the profession as you would be nothing more than a hired gun and not worthy to write RN after your name.

No, I do not condone a nurse with inappropriate art on her nails....but then my nails never go past my finger tips and never use anything more than clear coat on them to keep them from breaking (that does not mean a nurse whos nails are longer and has color applied is wrong...it was just how I was taught). As for showing up in black and orange scrubs for work....welll.......maybe if it was a pediatric ward...it jus might be appropriate. For adults, I would say that a scrub jacket with a holiday pattern would be more appropriate. I am the proud owner of brightly coloured scrub jackets and all my adult patients thank me for the little bit of bright cheeriness that it provides. That is the difference between professionalism and a circus side show......but then like I said there is pediatrics and that requires an entirely different mind set and approach.

I also agree that experience breeds knowledge....and as a true professional, I strive to broaden my knowledge base so that when I converse with a MD, I sound intelligent, but there is also an art to asking professional questions with out sounding like a blooming idiot, too...and that art comes with experience, learning from others...being fortunate to have someone to take you under their wing and show you the ropes and how it is done.....time management also comes with experience....as one learns to prioritize, one's management of time gets better. But I must agree with gwenith....the big stick approach never works well......unless the person is so completely ignorant, in which instance, it is a management problem to deal with the potentially, highly dangerous staff member.

i also agree that to encourage and provide nurses with tools of self empowerment would go along way to helping to solve alot of problems. But wit hthat self empowerment, management must be willing to help resolve instead of divide and conquer..... And until that happens, nurse will forever continue to recieve negative publicity and disrespect from both doctors and co workers and management. And there in is the greatest injustice of all.

I didn't read everyone's posts on this one, I stopped at this comment

Nurses today are no different from the ones of years ago...essentially, they're still cleaning the patient's pee-pee and poop, giving medications, doing assessments, and taking orders from doctors and NPs. That's always been a part of the job that will never change whether you're wearing white or the most hideous scrubs.

Dave, you are a fool if you think that's ALL a RN does. And IF you finish school and pass the boards, I don't want to work with you.

Also, I don't appreciate being lumped into the group of nurses you have been involved with, cause the group of nurses I work with are all hard-working, competent, and smart. The doctors at our facility seem to respect us and listen to what we have to say.

I know very few nurses who don't continue on their educations.

I iron my uniform everyday, my shoes are always clean and the nurses I work with are all just as particular about their appearance as I am. My hair is always up and my nails are short and clean. Just like the other nurses on our floor.

As for the complaining, so people who aren't nurses don't complain?! PLEASE!

Dave, things aren't perfect where I work, but I don't make a habit of looking for the bad. I always look for the good. Maybe you should try that in the future. You may see things you missed before.

One more thing, the terms "pee-pee and poop" are not normally used. Try urination or voiding and bowel movement. I for one might be more inclined to give you creditability.

Well said Paula. I haven't met too many people in this world, regardless of profession, who don't complain about their jobs.

Want to see some California nurse heros?

Just one of many success stories from the link!

http://cna.igc.org/cna101/nursingpractice.htm

Community Campaign Improves Telemetry Staffing

The CNA Professional Practice Committee at St. Vincent, LA:

"Our telemetry unit assignments were too heavy to allow safe delivery of patient care. After meetings with nursing administration proved unproductive, the telemetry nurses and the PPC initiated an intensive two-week ADO campaign on all shifts in the unit to document the unsafe assignments that resulted in a private meeting with JCAHO and the State Department of Health Services (DHS). Violations of Title 22 were reported and the facility was cited for staffing deficiencies. When administration still did not comply, the nurses held a candlelight vigil at the hospital about the staffing deficiencies at which copies of the DHS report were distributed to the media, physicians, and other staff. A few days later, the staffing ratios recommended earlier by the PPC were implemented. The staffing matrix now includes 2 acuity levels at 1:3 and 1:5."

http://www.hi-ho.ne.jp/taku77/sum/spr02120.htm

Effects of Year's Scandals Evident in Honesty and Ethics Ratings

Jeffrey M. Jones, GALLUP NEWS SERVICE

More than anything, 2002 may be remembered as a year of scandal in the United States. The corrupt actions of high-ranking

executives at several major corporations, most notably Enron, were uncovered. Martha Stewart and some of her business

associates became embroiled in an insider stock-trading scandal. The Roman Catholic Church is still dealing with the issue of

sexual abuse of young people by priests. And Rep. James Traficant of Ohio was expelled from Congress and jailed after being

found guilty of taking bribes while serving in the U.S. House. The effects of these scandals are apparent in Gallup's annual

update of the public's ratings of the honesty and ethics of professions. While ratings of business professionals have never been

high, it is clear that the scandals may well have taken a toll. Ratings of the clergy's honesty and ethics are at their lowest point

ever, and ratings of congressmen declined this year after reaching historical highs the past 2 years. Overall, NURSES are once again the most highly rated profession among those tested in the survey, while telemarketers and car salesmen rank among the lowest.

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http://www.gallup.com/subscription/?m=f&c_id=10916

POLL ANALYSES After 9/11 Firefighters and police rose in respect.

12/5/2001

Firefighters Top Gallup's "Honesty and Ethics" List

Nurses and members of military close behind

Firefighters top this year's annual Gallup survey of honesty and ethics among members of

different professions. Nurses and members of the military rank second and third, respectively,

close behind the firefighters. The police, pharmacists, medical doctors and the clergy also get

high marks. The biggest change is found in the higher ratings received by the police, up 13

percentage points from last year. Car salesmen come in last, as they have for the past two

and a half decades.

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http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=Gallup+%22Honesty+and+Ethics&url=eUXO8-ZkxFwJ:icg.harvard.edu/~gov1300/Slides/honesty.pdf

Gallup Poll _ November 2000 Only partial with NURSES most respected.

Please tell me how you would rate the honesty and ethical standards of people in these different fields -- very high, high, average, low, or very low? Occupation % Very High/High

Nurses 79

Pharmacists 67

Veterinarians 66

Medical Doctors 63

Police 55

Senators 24

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Specializes in ICU, ED, Med-Surg, Progressive Care.
Originally posted by gwenith

I am glad you feel able to express this opinion but the big stick approach never really works rather than getting management to "insist upon it" it is better if we can encourage self motivation and empowerment. All too often I have seen education used as a magic wand to cure all ills. No attempt to analyse the problem - no attempt to determeine wherther or not it is even an educational problem just throw the staff into a room and lecture to them - problem solved.

I am sorry that my post was misinterpreted. I did not mean that we need more lectures or even inservices. That isn't good leadership or even good management. A good leader would insist that the staff on her floor act in a professional manner, and would insist that they continue their education.

What I find happening all too often is that management is so busy trying to fill schedules and balance budgets that they don't encourage either professionalism or education.

Typically it may be decided that short staffing is really caused by nurses not "organising thier workloads correctly" and an educational session would be set up to address this but in truth the workloads may be VERY dangerous. Read some of the threads on this board. One nurse a couple of weeks ago talked of how as a graduate she was trying to cover 15 telemetry patients!!! No amount of reorgnisation will address that deficit and it is insulting to expect her to welcome a session on how to better organise her day. When she/he complains that this is not appropriate he/she is told that tehy are "resistant to change" and "unwilling to learn"

I couldn't agree with you more. The nursing shortage is very real. It is not the nurses fault. But, it is here to stay and we better find a way to deal with it.

You say that experience does not replace knowledge well I will have to disagree with you on this point also. Please do not belittle experiential learning and practice wisdom. Admittedly they are not and should not be the only foundation of knowledge but niether should empirical knowledge be the sole support of our practice.

Here you just rephrased what I said. Experience does not replace knowledge. I didn't say that one is more important than the other. Rather, if I want respect from my peers, I had better seek out the knowledge to be able to articulate my findings and observations, so that the patient gets what they need. Its not one or the other, but it has to be both.

Best wishes,

David Woodruff, MSN, RN, CNS, CCRN

Specializes in PACU.

Dave, I am not yet a nurse, nor am I i nursing school. I have however volunteered in a hospital just like you and I also am a nurses assistant. Im not stating my credintials to justify anything just letting you know that i have an idea of whats going on. I believe that people like you go into nursing for the big money, degrees, and other things that i my book are bad reasons. I didnt clearly see you state anything about your going into nursing with any respect to the nurses who have been doing there job for year. I also dont rremeber you stating that you are going into nursing to make changes, set examples, ad provide the best care possble for patients. You have no idea what it is like to be nurse, and yet you think its ok to put others down and jusify others for doing so as well. Under no circumstances is it acceptable to look down on another human being. i really dont know you or your true feelings but from what i have read from you i think you dont need to become a nurse, and i really dont think you should be adminstering anesthesia to anyone. Please look and observe bit more, humble yourself and become a little more understanding.remeber you just observed one enviorment.

Dave, thanks for your input. I have to agree with UntamedSoul about promoting nurse's empowerment to make changes, because no one else will do it unless we take matters into our own hands.

This reminds me of a veteran RN who constatnly complained about how unfair hospital policies are towards nurses, and that "because it's a gender-specific profession " we are a have no fair representation therefore no respect. She might have had a point, but had she ever written to her congress rep. or was she ever part of a coalition to impose legislation? No...

As you are aware, nursing programs are educating future nurses on the importance of empowerment and becoming politically involved, this is a must for nurses, and one way to make a difference.

As for the uniforms is concerned, most of us are aware that the traditional white cap and starched white uniform did not historically reflect authority...rather, the white color was a way to imply " a state of virginity" and submissiveness before the authoritative, dark-suited male physician. I personally liked how clean it looked, but will never be caught dead with such an uncomfortable outfit. I love scrubs as long as they coordinate and are clean, and there is a fashion plus with the colors. I think nurses can find other ways to idenfity themselves in the absence of a white cap. The suggestion of using Nurse Jones instead of just "Linda" sounds appropriate.

Also, nurses were never as respected in the past as they are now. Back then, you were supposed to cross your legs, stand up when the physician walked in and make coffee... apart from other unsighly duties... This might have been regardes as more "ladylike" but never has nursing been seen as a legitimate profession as it is now... So take pride on it.

Some nurse advocates have pointed out that part of the problem lies in the fact that so many nurses have unequal educational backgrounds from a one and-a-half nursing program, to the traditional four-year program, therefore clients and medical staff don't know how much clinical preparedness the nursing staff practices with. I have mixed opinions about this because I have worked with excellent clinicians with less than a four-yr. college degree and with BSN nurses who no longer stop and listen to their patients all together...But I agree that we just can't loose with educating nurses better, and we need to work on solidifying our educational backgrounds better. Instead of being part of the instutution, better educated nurses can be the institution.

As for the acrylic nails go, everyone knows they harbor more bacteria and as for the wrinkled scrubs and nasty tennis shoes goes, (yup, some of them look like jail inmantes) we definitely have much more to go:):eek: ;)

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