Non nursing managers

[valair55]

Is there anyone out there that is being managed by a non-nurse? I am currently being managed by a registered dietician who does not have a clue as to what I do. I have been working with non-nursing managers for the past 18 months. It is unique. I don't know how they can even do an evaluation. They don't understand nursing at all. My biggest fear is that they can't do an assessment nor are they concerned about patient/nursing issues. Has anyone experienced this type of situation??

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

Yes, I have a non-nursing manager who is a businessman.

He lowered the water pressure throughout the facility to save money, but he gets to hide in his large office while nursing staff deals with the outcry from patients and family members. He turned the temperature down on the heater this winter to cut costs, but nursing staff gets to deal with the whining from patients regarding how cold they feel. He has ordered the dietary department to prepare more sandwiches and fruit plates to save money, but patients are angry because they ordered more expensive meals (roast beef, meat loaf, etc), leaving nursing staff to handle the food complaints.

I have a non-nursing manager, and it is hell on earth. I don't comprehend his world, and he does not understand the world in which nurses live.

[cathy949]

Hi,

I have worked for non-nursing managers in the past and have experienced similar to both of you. Cost cutting would appear to be their main mandate. However, patient care is the nurses responsibility and if things go wrong due to poor staffing levels, inadequate or incorrect supplies, and you have not put in writing, the blame will be laid at your feet. I would document everything. Having said that, there are also some very good non-nursing managers who support your role and enhance your job.

You are in a difficult situation and I don't envy you.

Cathy :redpinkhe

[Katie82, RN]

There may be good news on the horizon. Many nurses are opting for a MBA in HealthCare Mgt these days. I did, online, and my classes were loaded with nurses and even some doctors. Very few lay people. It is a new trend, and most schools that offer nursing graduate degrees also offer this as an option. It will be, hopefully, the best of both worlds. Healthcare is a business, and understanding both sides of the fence is crucial in this current enviornment.

[barefootlady, ADN, RN]

A non-nurse manager is difficult to work for and with if there is a lack of knowledge on the managers part,and a lack of respect for nurses by this manager. I have been in this position. Never want to work that way again, but to be fair I have worked for some awful nurse managers too. One was out of this universe d/t Bipolar issues and one had never really worked the floor, only did the paper end of the job. Not a good fit either way. In the end, both were fired d/t high turn over of staff. Sometimes it just takes a while before the BTB get the clear message. Good luck when the next crisis hits, I feel sure it will be left up to the nurses to handle the situation.

[valair55]

These situations can be very challenging. Nurses are stuck with rectifying the situation in the end. The manager I have does not respect nurses at all. She seems to think that nurses and nurse practitioners are "hand-maidens" (her direct quote). My response is some day a nurse will be caring for you and we'll see what you think then.

Yes, I have a non-nursing manager who is a businessman.

He lowered the water pressure throughout the facility to save money, but he gets to hide in his large office while nursing staff deals with the outcry from patients and family members. He turned the temperature down on the heater this winter to cut costs, but nursing staff gets to deal with the whining from patients regarding how cold they feel. He has ordered the dietary department to prepare more sandwiches and fruit plates to save money, but patients are angry because they ordered more expensive meals (roast beef, meat loaf, etc), leaving nursing staff to handle the food complaints.

I have a non-nursing manager, and it is hell on earth. I don't comprehend his world, and he does not understand the world in which nurses live.

[valair55]

I too have worked for some bad nurse managers as well. However, it was due to lack of experience or other issues surrounding the situation.

A non-nurse manager is difficult to work for and with if there is a lack of knowledge on the managers part,and a lack of respect for nurses by this manager. I have been in this position. Never want to work that way again, but to be fair I have worked for some awful nurse managers too. One was out of this universe d/t Bipolar issues and one had never really worked the floor, only did the paper end of the job. Not a good fit either way. In the end, both were fired d/t high turn over of staff. Sometimes it just takes a while before the BTB get the clear message. Good luck when the next crisis hits, I feel sure it will be left up to the nurses to handle the situation.

[santhony44, MSN, RN, NP]

I had a non-nursing manager in one situation who really didn't have a clue.

In industry, my direct manager in the plant was a non-nurse, but we also had a corporate nurse. My manager, to her credit, never interfered inappropriately and was quite supportive. She was a good person to work for.

I've had my share of bad nurse managers, too. Overall, though, I prefer a nurse to a non-nurse.

[flightnurse2b, LPN]

i work for a "nurse manager" who is an accountant. she got the job by default, because the practice was too cheap i guess to hire another RN.

i work in a 6 bed, 3 procedure room, 3 infusion chair endoscopy unit. there is me (paramedic), 2 RN's, and a CNA who washes the scopes and helps us make beds and transport pts. we work 7am-4:30pm, and in that time we do about 15 procedures and 3-4 IV infusions. we are also the building's "IV team" (its a small office) so we go to CT scan, urgent care, and nuclear lab when they have a hard stick. i am also the code team leader in the building because the only 2 RN's in the building are the ones that work with me, and they are not ACLS certified.

so anyway, in those 9 and a half hrs, we are not entitled to a lunch break (she told me to check the state labor board--if they dont think we need one, we dont get one), we are not to ask for help prepping or transporting patients from the CMA's in the office, and just lately from one of the new docs who was waiting on me to start a procedure "dont pee on my watch."

when we went to her and told her it was too much to ask for 4 people, she said "i dont care what you do, i dont want to hear about it, you guys are a thorn in my side." she actually wanted to close the unit because WE were too expensive to keep and she "could hire 5 CMA's for our price". i should have ran then.

so when we went to the senior GI doc who is our direct supervisor, he gave us all 0.50 cent raises, and said "she doesnt need to know what you do. she writes your checks."

i only took the job for the hours while i am in nursing school. i cant wait to quit and tell her where to stick her job and her nasty attitude. she shouldnt be a nurse manager if she doesnt care.

[ebear, BSN, RN]

...and they wonder why there's a nursing shortage :angryfire

[suzanne4, RN]

I have worked under a non-nursing manager in the OR in several facilities in the past and there were never any issues with them. As long as their management skills are there, then there should not be any issue.

Have worked with managers that have been nurses, and their skills in management were severely lacking. Depends 100% on the person.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

I have an issue with the non-nursing managers as well. We are not sure of whom to approach when asking for time off; sometimes, we go to the nursing administrator (she approves time off for who she likes), and other times we have to approach this idiot.

At times, I work in the Coumadin Clinic, where they have one lone nurse working with a physician's assistant to run this clinic. The position includes registering patients in the clinic, doing a fingerstick on the Coagu-Chek to obtain the PT/INR, and if it is above 3.0, it means an automatic blood draw. The lone nurse is taking phone calls to schedule appointments, receive abnormal lab results from the lab, calling or returning calls to patients who missed appointments, answer their questions about the meds, teach new patients, schedule appointments to the other patients just seen, and sending them to either the Medical clinic or ER if they are sick for other reasons and occasionally administer Lovenox injections. In addition, we have to do extensive teaching about Coumadin which takes time, especially since most of our patients have language barriers. We are located right next to the reception desk, so, many times, patients either bang incessently on the door or barge in thinking that we are the financial counselor, social worker, managed care or the 'sick bay'.

With all of this going on, I cannot always draw blood. Many times, while in the middle of sticking a feeble old lady, people are barging in or the phone is ringing, or the PA wants to bother me about some nonsense. I told the manager that I need a Patient Care Associate to come in and draw blood so that I can keep the rest of the clinic moving. Because she wishes to retain her resources, she tells me I can handle it. But, if a mistake is made, I am to blame. She does not understand about patient privacy, patient teaching, organization or whatever. She needs to stop interfering with nursing issues; she has no contribution or knowledge about what we do.