"The Victim" and the "Big Ole Meanie who Made Her Cry" - page 5

i've always wondered why when there's a "communication difficulty," the person who says what they mean and means what they say is usually the one blamed for it. when someone bursts into tears at... Read More

  1. by   anniev
    Quote from caroladybelle
    I worked with one of those. One night, we both ran our butts off all night. However, while she was running, she stopped to:

    - take 3 phone calls from her highly dysfunctional grown (32 y/o) daughter. They were all (OF COURSE) emergencies. As in, "Momma, I spent the three hundred dollars, you gave me for the $200 phone bill (collect calls to drug abusing boyfriend in jail) on new clothes for the kids and on food for a party - I need more money NOW!!!!
    - Went off to smoke 4 times - she was just too stressed out to work otherwise.
    - Call a few nurses on other floors to complain about th MD on call.
    - Whine about how unfair "EVERYTHING" is.

    I, on the other hand, left the floor for 10 minutes to get food (at 0330 when caught up briefly) and scarf it down in 10 more minutes. No personal phone calls, no excess whine time, no smokes. I also offered to help and caught lights.

    So at report time at 0700 AM, while I have to round with MDs in addition to having the same load, who starts crying to the oncoming shift about how she had no help at all, and felt like she worked the whole floor by herself?

    So instead of leaving remotely on time after busting my butt, who has to stay behind for a stat chat with the boss and gets chewed on by a day nurse that heard her side and blamed me without getting my side?

    I leave you to guess.
    :angryfireso true isn't it!
  2. by   P_RN
    This was true in high school on group projects, in business school where 2 students were assigned to one office, in nursing school and in the "real world." Somehow lazy/disoriented people are always the victim.
    I'm a "do the project that night it is assigned." Get the basics done on ALL patients, chart in timely fashion, so people like us end up doing our 100% and their 10-45% too.
  3. by   Freedom42
    Interesting read, Multicollinarity. Thank you.
  4. by   Pumpkin1621
    Quote from DusktilDawn
    Recognizing when you need help is part of becoming a professional, as knowing when to take help when it is offered. You're the one that should know that you need help not your coworkers, nor should it be their responsibility to tell you. Your coworkers are not mind readers nor will they necessarily be fully aware what is actually needed when they offer assistance. I think sometimes people confuse needing help as a weakness, when the truth is knowing when to seek help/assistance/advice is a strength. When help is offered and you need it, take it, someone may not be able to help you later.
    Like I said, I like to hold my own. However, I do know when it is a get help or fail situation. I never let it get that bad, and I do accept help if I am falling far behind.

    She had been told repeated that she needed to get up to speed with her assessments, nursing care, and documentation. She had also been told that the patient needed to be ready to be transferred by 11:00. She was asked what did she need help with to get this patient ready by that time, she insisted she was fine and everything was OK. She should have known at some point before 11:00 that she was behind.
    Ahh I missed this "repeated" part. That makes more sense. You are right.


    At 11:00 her coworkers got the patient ready for transfer because she hadn't. She was complaining about receiving a new admission BECAUSE SHE hadn't had lunch yet, she didn't express concern over anyone else having lunch, I'm sure she would know she would have relieve another in order for them to have lunch. What Hortense was pointing out to her was the fact that had the patient been ready for transfer when he/she was supposed to be, she could have had lunch AND relieved another so that they could have had their lunch. Actually it was a great opportunity to point out how her time management impacts not only herself. Yes it was said in front of a coworker, I don't think it was entirely inappropriate, it can sometimes be in one's best interest to have a witness present. I don't think this was a situation of the charge nurse "punishing" her by denying her lunch, if that was the case then she would have been the only one not to have lunch.
    I understand now, but I don't understand why upper management would punish the charge nurse (I don't know if you call communication courses punishment) and not the other girl. I don't know if we are just unaware of the other girl's side of the story. Tears aren't the end all to get getting your way. Crying couldn't have been the main reason for the outcome of this...
  5. by   Tweety
    Quote from Freedom42
    A lot has been written about the current crop of twentysomethings being unwilling to put their time in at entry-level jobs in general. They don't believe they should have to earn the privilege of a weekday shift, for example, or have so many years of experience before being promoted to a supervisory experience. They want meaningful work right off the bat; and to their credit, a lot of them are willing to negotiate their way around work they don't want to do. When they can't, they often leave. Unemployment has no stigma. (For what it's worth, Wikipedia has an interesting entry on Gen Xers.)

    None of that applies to Myrtle, nor necessarily to new professionals in any aspect of health care. And we've all worked with twentysomethings who are fantastic and can teach the rest of us a thing or two.

    As for whether people have to pay dues, it's been my experience that people who've got years of experience -- some, not all -- believe that newbies earn their privileges.


    Not to nit pick, but aren't Gen X'ers the generation behind the baby boomers. They are now in the their 30's, they were full of angst, but also fueld in the computer generation by working endless hours bringing the internet and computer life to masses? 20-somethings are not part of that generation.

    I do see what you're saying. On the other hand you have experienced nurses with time in a place thinking they get all the priviledge, that they get first choice of all holidays off, that they get priority over vacation and other things, and the newbies get nothing.

    Also, it can be admirable that younger folks are coming in and asking for what they want - speciality positions, dayshift, etc. Why pay dues when they can get what they want. Why force someone to pay dues when the price can be lowered with no harm to anyone.

    There shouldn't be any sense of entitlement for newbies and experienced people. But newbies shouldn't be expected everything on a silver platter.
  6. by   Freedom42
    Quote from Tweety
    Not to nit pick, but aren't Gen X'ers the generation behind the baby boomers. They are now in the their 30's, they were full of angst, but also fueld in the computer generation by working endless hours bringing the internet and computer life to masses? 20-somethings are not part of that generation.

    I do see what you're saying. On the other hand you have experienced nurses with time in a place thinking they get all the priviledge, that they get first choice of all holidays off, that they get priority over vacation and other things, and the newbies get nothing.

    Also, it can be admirable that younger folks are coming in and asking for what they want - speciality positions, dayshift, etc. Why pay dues when they can get what they want. Why force someone to pay dues when the price can be lowered with no harm to anyone.

    There shouldn't be any sense of entitlement for newbies and experienced people. But newbies shouldn't be expected everything on a silver platter.
    You're right, Tweety. Gen Xers came after Baby Boomers, followed by -- thanks, Multicollinarity! -- Gen Yers and Milleniums. I learned that from Multicollinarity's link to a very interesting read. One of the observations in that piece is that many members of Gens X, Y and Millenium all seem to have -- in the opinion of a number of social researchers -- an exaggerated sense of self-esteem and entitlement. Of course, these researchers are careful to point out that there are many who don't fit that stereotype.

    As another poster pointed out, you don't have to be a twentysomething to be a newbie like Myrtle, either. When I raised this issue, what I was really thinking about was that people come from all different perspectives, and successfully managing them requires that we try to recognize that when we communicate on the job.

    That said, Myrtle needs to think about managing up -- and down, and sideways -- just as Hortense and everybody else does. I think what some veterans have said on this thread about mentoring is right on. But I also agree with posters who've said that Myrtle needs to cool it with the tears. One thing's for sure: She didn't endear herself to any charge nurse by running to the manager right off the bat.
  7. by   Tweety
    Quote from Freedom42
    . One of the observations in that piece is that many members of Gens X, Y and Millenium all seem to have -- in the opinion of a number of social researchers -- an exaggerated sense of self-esteem and entitlement. Of course, these researchers are careful to point out that there are many who don't fit that stereotype.
    Boomers have a bit of a problem with entitlement as well. We're one of the first generations that didn't have to struggle, that the world revolved around us through each phase of our lives from toddler to now older age. Everythings been given to us and we've never gone hungry. This is manifested in the lack of planning and saving for retirement. 1/3 of us have nothing for retirement set aside, another third have an inadequate amount. We're spendthrifts but presume we're entitled to be taken care of because we always have.

    Differences in generations, how they act and work are important things for us to know about. We also have to remember none is superior than the other. Even the beloved "greatest generation" those that fought in WWII had their problems with racism, homophobia and prejudice against others religions, etc.

    I do get aggitated when boomers disrepect the younger generation, when we were the generation that rebeled against that very idea and started the "youth culture" and generational wars in the 60s. Now we're older with kids of our own whining "younger people these days..............".
  8. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from Tweety
    Boomers have a bit of a problem with entitlement as well. We're one of the first generations that didn't have to struggle, that the world revolved around us through each phase of our lives from toddler to now older age. Everythings been given to us and we've never gone hungry. This is manifested in the lack of planning and saving for retirement. 1/3 of us have nothing for retirement set aside, another third have an inadequate amount. We're spendthrifts but presume we're entitled to be taken care of because we always have.

    Differences in generations, how they act and work are important things for us to know about. We also have to remember none is superior than the other. Even the beloved "greatest generation" those that fought in WWII had their problems with racism, homophobia and prejudice against others religions, etc.

    I do get aggitated when boomers disrepect the younger generation, when we were the generation that rebeled against that very idea and started the "youth culture" and generational wars in the 60s. Now we're older with kids of our own whining "younger people these days..............".

    There was an interesting show on PBS the other night about we Boomers.


    steph
  9. by   oramar
    I have lived with that spoiled boomer perception since I was a child. The people who first describe people my age as self centered were the WWII generation and their parents. People of the WWII generation who wrote about those things were usually better educated and from a middle classs or upper middle class white collar or professional background. They were mostly speaking of their own children who they considered spoiled brats who had life a lot easier than they did. I was born in '48 and am from a blue collar back ground. Most boomers especially early boomer born between '46 and '55 were not from middle and upper middle class backgrounds but from lower middle class backgrounds just like me, a lot were just plane poor. Honestly, I swear to you life was really hard when I was young. I was hungry at times, I was cold at times, at times I couldn't get to school cause I had no coat or boots. When I did get to school I would hide in a stairwell at lunch so I would not smell the food cooking because I did not have money for lunch, there was no food at home to brown bag it. The really difficult days were sporatic, in the '50s and early '60 the economy was very slow at times and better at other times. When the mills were working more we lived better. I am not complaining, I had it much better than people I knew who were bone jarringly poor every day of the week, every week of the year. One of the people I knew as "one of those poor kids" is my DH. His father was shell shocked during WWII and had PTS very bad and could not hold down a job. My husband's parents had six children who were very poorly fed and sheltered indeed. My hubby's strongest memory is of being homeless and standing in the snow with his mother and siblings with no where to go. His father was most likely lying dead drunk in a gutter somewhere. Believe it or not, neither of us has suffered any permanant damage from tough times. If anything we are both tough as nails. We are now comfortably middle class with nice paid for home, nice pensions and well educated, well balanced adult children. I just am afraid that everyone believes what they hear about people my age. I don't believe everything I hear about 30 somethings, or 20 somethings. Matter of fact I am really good at recognizing sterotypes for what they are and am slow to pass judgement.
  10. by   PANurseRN1
    Quote from DusktilDawn
    Recognizing when you need help is part of becoming a professional, as knowing when to take help when it is offered. You're the one that should know that you need help not your coworkers, nor should it be their responsibility to tell you. Your coworkers are not mind readers nor will they necessarily be fully aware what is actually needed when they offer assistance. I think sometimes people confuse needing help as a weakness, when the truth is knowing when to seek help/assistance/advice is a strength. When help is offered and you need it, take it, someone may not be able to help you later.

    She had been told repeated that she needed to get up to speed with her assessments, nursing care, and documentation. She had also been told that the patient needed to be ready to be transferred by 11:00. She was asked what did she need help with to get this patient ready by that time, she insisted she was fine and everything was OK. She should have known at some point before 11:00 that she was behind. At 11:00 her coworkers got the patient ready for transfer because she hadn't. She was complaining about receiving a new admission BECAUSE SHE hadn't had lunch yet, she didn't express concern over anyone else having lunch, I'm sure she would know she would have relieve another in order for them to have lunch. What Hortense was pointing out to her was the fact that had the patient been ready for transfer when he/she was supposed to be, she could have had lunch AND relieved another so that they could have had their lunch. Actually it was a great opportunity to point out how her time management impacts not only herself. Yes it was said in front of a coworker, I don't think it was entirely inappropriate, it can sometimes be in one's best interest to have a witness present. I don't think this was a situation of the charge nurse "punishing" her by denying her lunch, if that was the case then she would have been the only one not to have lunch.
    Exactly! I read that thinking, "Come on, grow up already!" At what point do we stop hand-holding? It doesn't sound like she was on orientation or just off orientation, which would have been a bit different. Please...how much (or how little) are we to expect of our co-workers? If I have to start reminding people "If you don't do 'x,' then you won't get to lunch on time," well, that's just ridiculous. That's the sort of thing you expect to hear in kindergarten, but with adults? No way.
  11. by   Ruby Vee
    i think there is some truth to this. i am shocked by the amount of twenty year olds that do not have jobs or that think it is no big deal to not have some sort of plan for the future! or they think working at a low level job is beneath them. sigh, we all started somewhere.



    this was great and you made great points. call me harsh, call me mean but i really think people have to realize that newbs are still dealing with patients lives. sure we can mentor and guide but let us get them on the ball too!
    when i was precepted, i worked with a bunch of experienced nurses that had a little bit of a reputation for being "mean". were they? no they really were not. they just didn't react well to newbs like myrtle. there were a lot of direct communicators and i learned quickly to take the wise things they told me and use them to my full advantage.

    myrtle should have done the same. now she's alienated 2 nurses. too bad for her.[/quote]

    [font="comic sans ms"]i too am shocked by the number of 20-somethings who seem to believe that they deserve (and should have) everything they want right now just because they want it. they don't want to put in their time on nights before moving to days, don't want to "waste time" on an entry level position, and don't want to move into their own apartments because they have all the toys living with mom and dad and can use their paychecks to buy more toys rather than "wasting it" on rent, utilities and groceries!

    what shocks me even more is the folks who have obviously never had any negative feedback in their lives, believe they don't deserve any, and have no idea how to accept it. anytime you say anything they don't like, don't agree with or don't want to hear, they burst into tears or run to the manager saying you're being mean to them. i'm sorry, but no one is perfect, especially not when they're brand new. so how in the world are you going to give them constructive feedback? they'll accuse you of being mean because you've told them something negative and implied (or stated) that they aren't as perfect as mummy and daddy always assured them they were!

    i have enough problems managing my assignment and yours and trying to point out the ways in which you could save time, improve patient care, not kill your patient without worrying about teaching you to accept constructive criticism in an adult manner!
  12. by   NurseShelly
    I am curious as to why this thread seems to be turning into complaints about people in their 20's. I've met people of all ages from all walks of life, and I'm surprised at the 50-somethings who don't have a job, or have yet to begin preparing for their future. I think mentoring, guiding and getting someone "on the ball" can be done without being harsh. If you've seen one of my earlier posts, I worked with a nurse who 30+ yrs of exp, and was always crying at the drop of a dime. AGE has nothing to do with it, perception does. NOw, I wasn't there and I know Myrtle or Hortense, but I do know some people use tears to manipulate, and someone else may truly need the release. I don't think the person who started this thread meant to start a generational debate, and I don't think the complaints about 20- somethings are warranted.
  13. by   Multicollinearity
    Quote from Sophie123
    I am curious as to why this thread seems to be turning into complaints about people in their 20's. I've met people of all ages from all walks of life, and I'm surprised at the 50-somethings who don't have a job, or have yet to begin preparing for their future. I think mentoring, guiding and getting someone "on the ball" can be done without being harsh. If you've seen one of my earlier posts, I worked with a nurse who 30+ yrs of exp, and was always crying at the drop of a dime. AGE has nothing to do with it, perception does. NOw, I wasn't there and I know Myrtle or Hortense, but I do know some people use tears to manipulate, and someone else may truly need the release. I don't think the person who started this thread meant to start a generational debate, and I don't think the complaints about 20- somethings are warranted.
    I don't think we are having a generational debate and I don't think we are complaining about 20 somethings. I think the conversation evolved into the average differences between generations regarding hypersensitivity and criticism.

    There is a difference between understanding differences between groups and complaining about individuals.

    I'll leave it at that because I'm not the OP, and this isn't my thread.

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