I was wondering, do you think that countries that do more elder care in family settings, rather than institutional ones, will fare better in this crisis?
I read today, on a mainstream news outlet, that in some states 50% of the fatalities from the Coronavirus are from nursing home patients. More than 10,000 nursing home deaths in NY alone.
I'm pretty sure that less wealthy countries do most of their eldercare by relatives. What do you think? Nursing homes seem to be a vortex for coronovirus fatalities.
On 5/3/2020 at 2:07 AM, A Hit With The Ladies said:
It might be harsh, but sometimes being harsh is flat-out necessary. If you equivocate and show weakness, people here in America will be eating out of your hands by getting you to go against your own self-interest.
Also, it's not just about finances for American families that is a problem when it comes to caring for the elderly. Like I said before, we are an individualist society, and people here are expected to raise their children without being dependents on social support system. Most Americans, regardless of social class, consider it shameful to have outsiders come in and help you raise your kids. Sadly, many American couples end up drained after caring for children and their finances day-in day-out, and have marital problems because they have little energy left for each other. Can you imagine anything more of a buzzkill than having your parents in the same home as you? Or your in-laws?!
Everyone wants peace in their households. At times when there's fighting between spouses or couples it can be a real struggle to return to that peace. Throwing your own parents (or your spouse's parents, who are not going to be unbiased) into the mix is a guaranteed circus.
Lastly, this is just against nature. What other species has old parents return to be cared for by grown children? When aging birds or elephants no longer can care for themselves, they know it's their time. The real selfishness is being a burden on your own grown kids trying to make it in the hard world.
It is true that Everyone wants peace in their households. However, people define things differently. For me, having my beloved grandmother stay with me, it is my peace; without her, a hole in my heart.
I would die before I put my mother in a LTC center. That is not to bash the people who work in LTC, most are wonderful. But I will take care of my mother like she took care of me if she ever needs it. And I would consider it to be a privilege. The same goes for my MIL.
On 5/2/2020 at 9:06 PM, A Hit With The Ladies said:
America is a nation of individualists who prize their liberty like none other. The extended family model does not work in an industrialized nation like this one. We value our privacy and freedom too much to let our parents live with us when we're grown up. It's imperative that adults be able to function independently and (if they so choose) start their own nuclear families.
I'm a 31-year old Millennial and I know that there is no way I would have my parents live with me when they get very old. I'm willing to come by from time to time and help them, but I have told mom that it's out of the question for her to live with me at that time. She tried the whole "We didn't put you in daycare when you were little" line, but I'm not falling for that emotional manipulation.
When it comes to your own emotional happiness, you have to be selfish in this country, or else other people will guilt-trip you into misery or doing something you don't want to do.
Having lost both my parents in their early 50s, I never had the opportunity to care for them in their old age. They always said the didn't want to be a 'burden' on us, so maybe them leaving this earth early was a blessing to them in that respect. I can say without a doubt I would have LOVED to have been able to care for them in their old age. To me caring for your elderly is an honor.
There are some cases where keeping a parent in the home is near impossible (mid-late stage dementia) and other conditions that need skilled care.
American selfishness definitely helps keep LTC centers necessary, I agree with you there. I'm just not as proud of that aspect of our nature as you are.
There are some parents who are abusive to their offspring. Sometimes it is important for adult children to distance themselves from their parents.
My father was one of those. Basically, he was abusive. He made sexual advances at me, he was essentially a narcissistic man to the core. He constantly tried to manipulate me with the prospect of an inheritance.
He died in January. It turns out I had been disinherited for many many years. I only found that out when I got a letter from the lawyer notify me of his death. His current woman didn't think it necessary to notify my brother and me.
Sometimes the healthiest thing for a person is to let go, and forge forward with their life. We can't allow some so-called obligation to force us into a toxic situation.
Specializes in Pediatrics, Pediatric Float, PICU, NICU.
Just now, Emergent said:
There are some parents who are abusive to their offspring. Sometimes it is important for adult children to distance themselves from their parents.
My father was one of those. Basically, he was abusive. He made sexual advances at me, he was essentially a narcissistic man to the core. He constantly tried to manipulate me with the prospect of an inheritance.
He died in January. It turns out I had been disinherited for many many years. I only found that out when I got a letter from the lawyer notify me of his death. His current woman didn't think it necessary to notify my brother and me.
Sometimes the healthiest thing for a person is to let go, and forge forward with their life. We can't allow some so-called obligation to force us into a toxic situation.
Of course not, and I don't think the general consensus of any of the posters was saying to put yourself in a toxic situation like this just because you feel obligated. Thankfully I think your situation tends to be the exception rather than the norm.
I'm so sorry about what you went through, nobody should have to experience that.
There are some parents who are abusive to their offspring. Sometimes it is important for adult children to distance themselves from their parents.
My father was one of those. Basically, he was abusive. He made sexual advances at me, he was essentially a narcissistic man to the core. He constantly tried to manipulate me with the prospect of an inheritance.
He died in January. It turns out I had been disinherited for many many years. I only found that out when I got a letter from the lawyer notify me of his death. His current woman didn't think it necessary to notify my brother and me.
Sometimes the healthiest thing for a person is to let go, and forge forward with their life. We can't allow some so-called obligation to force us into a toxic situation.
Absolutely. Elderly care is not a one size fits all issue. I don't expect any adult child raised by abusive and toxic parents 'owe' anything to their aging parents. I certainly don't blame anyone for leaving that behind.
Like I said earlier, there are legitimate reasons LTC centers are necessary. Even adult children with loving relationships with their parent(s) may have no other option but to place their parent in a nursing home.
I personally think, if all possible, we take care of our elderly, but there are many barriers to that. And often, it's the elderly parent that doesn't want to live with their adult children. My FIL (hubby's step father) has a 95 year old mother who insists on living in her independent living facility. All three of her adult children have tried to get her to move in with them, she doesn't want to give up her independence. The children (well, until the lockdown) rotate visiting her so she has a visitor 6 days a week.
Sometimes the healthiest thing for a person is to let go, and forge forward with their life. We can't allow some so-called obligation to force us into a toxic situation.
I'm so sorry you had to deal with such an awful parent. I've known others who had 'inheritance' held over their heads to keep a thumb on them only to learn they were cut out of the will after the death.
I guess this is more common than we'd like to think. Being the grandchild of poor immigrants, inheritance was a nonissue. My parent's had few worldly possessions, and none that valuable in any way other than sentimental.
I can't imagine the stress of someone trying to control me with money. I guess growing up with little has it's blessings.
Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.
On 5/2/2020 at 9:06 PM, A Hit With The Ladies said:
America is a nation of individualists who prize their liberty like none other. The extended family model does not work in an industrialized nation like this one. We value our privacy and freedom too much to let our parents live with us when we're grown up. It's imperative that adults be able to function independently and (if they so choose) start their own nuclear families.
I'm a 31-year old Millennial and I know that there is no way I would have my parents live with me when they get very old. I'm willing to come by from time to time and help them, but I have told mom that it's out of the question for her to live with me at that time. She tried the whole "We didn't put you in daycare when you were little" line, but I'm not falling for that emotional manipulation.
When it comes to your own emotional happiness, you have to be selfish in this country, or else other people will guilt-trip you into misery or doing something you don't want to do.
Interesting. I am 49, my mother is 75 and completely independent, my husband is soon to be 66 and also completely independent. That being said, no way will I EVER put either of them in a nursing home after what I have seen of them, with the exception of dementia that causes them to be more than I can handle on my own. I consider myself an American too, but I just could not do it. No matter how good the nurses are, I have yet to see one with enough supplies and/or staff to keep them clean and happy.
My father was abusive and my mother allowed it, but she also was abused. Dad is gone now, but I know I could not have taken care of him at home. I think its hard to judge unless you have walked in someone else's shoes whether this kind of care is realistic. I do think that Americans in general do tend to undervalue our elderly by a large margin.
I honestly don't see how liberty and taking care of your elders are mutually exclusive. If anything, it's the elderly that is losing their liberty if they have to live under the roof of their adult child, not the other way around.
I don't expect my son's to take care of me in my old age, but I sure hope they love me enough to offer (even if I turn them down!). I hope I've raised them with the same compassion and empathy I was raised with.
Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.
I altered my post from your quoted response because I felt it was unduly harsh and didn't accurately reflect my real thoughts. I knee jerked, because I find bragging about being unwilling to assist parents or other loved ones when they become old and frail is absolutely repugnant to me. But I can't cast the blanket of shame over all. There are very valid reasons not to. But to be proud of it? That baffles me.
I'm so sorry you had to deal with such an awful parent. I've known others who had 'inheritance' held over their heads to keep a thumb on them only to learn they were cut out of the will after the death.
I guess this is more common than we'd like to think. Being the grandchild of poor immigrants, inheritance was a nonissue. My parent's had few worldly possessions, and none that valuable in any way other than sentimental.
I can't imagine the stress of someone trying to control me with money. I guess growing up with little has it's blessings.
Fortunately, I never bought into the whole inheritance thing. It got so tiresome, in addition to the other dysfunction, that I just went my own way and emotionally let go of the ideal that I had of having a good father. I realized that it just was never going to happen.
All growing up in as a teenager and adult I had to always be drawing boundaries with him. When I was 12, I had to say, please do not pinch my butt anymore. When I was 17 I had to say, no I'm not interested in going to your sex orgy or having sex with you. When I was in my twenties I had to say, I do not want to discuss my sex life with you. When I was in my thirties I had to say, I don't want you ever to hug me in public again, or discuss your sexual life with me.
Always, The inheritance came up in conversations. Then, when I married my excellent second husband, he said he was going to disinherit me. That pretty much fractured the relationship for good, not that there was anything healthy to fracture.
It just got tiresome and old, and I had a busy life and other things to do. It turns out, I had been disinherited way before that incident. Maybe because I was adopted he didn't feel much connection. I think his only love was ultimately for himself.
sara2011
11 Posts
It is true that Everyone wants peace in their households. However, people define things differently. For me, having my beloved grandmother stay with me, it is my peace; without her, a hole in my heart.