so far, love the job, hate the culture

[firstyearstudent]

As a second career nurse, I have over 20 years of work experience and have been rudely slapped in the face this past month at my new RN job by just how horrible nursing culture is. What is up with this? I had some inkling of what was to come in nursing school, but I'm still shocked. As a feminist it saddens me that I can't help thinking this has to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of nurses are women. My complaints so far:

1. Paranoia

2. Coworkers writing each other up or chewing each other out

3. Gossiping about others' mistakes or lack of skills/experience

4. Unfriendliness to new nurses that borders on rudeness

5. Looking down on CNAs, reinforcing a hierarchy that that nurses themselves hate when they deal with doctors

[Just last week a nurse manager at a staff-wide meeting told the CNAs that there were plenty of people lining up for their job. I was shocked!]

But maybe this kind of brutality happens at other "blue collar" jobs, too, and I've just been oblivious because I've always worked at pink collar or white collar jobs.

Why is this happening? What's the dynamic here? Is this workplace hostility coming down from management?

Every time I say something or make a suggestion, something I would do at any other job, I'm looked at like I'm from outer space or like I'm some kind of idiot. For instance, I'm on orientation and I asked if I could take one day and rotate through other parts of our hospital so that I could get a handle on the institution as a whole and I was shut down and given an eye roll by my manager.

[tencat]

Whenever a group of people feel that they are handed a lot of responsibility with little control over the situation, they lash out where they can. As we know, it's not safe to lash out at management (which is really where we should be taking our frustrations), so we take it out on eachother. I don't know why nurses don't stick together and help eachother, but that's the way it is and I certainly don't know how to change it, so I'll worry about myself and keep myself sane.

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

I sincerely want to apologize to the FirstYearStudent as I was confused when I made my prior post...please accept my apology and to the rest of the posters, sorry for the confusion.

[GadgetRN71, ASN, RN]

I am working in a male dominated specialty in OR nursing(Ortho) and you just don't see the the catty, backbiting behavior that many females engage in...It is not all women, but there is that undercurrent in nursing. I think it is more social than genetic-many women grow up "competing" for boyfriends, and what few financial opportunities were available. This phenomenon has also been observed among schoolkids-male bullies tend to be physically aggressive, female ones gossip, ostracize and use name calling to make someone feel like garbage. Sad that so many nurses never grew up completely and still engage in this nonsense.

Lateral violence has its basis in an oppressed group taking out their frustrations on those "below" them. In other words, crap rolls downhill!

[steelcityrn, RN]

Thats terrible that anyone would put a patient in harms way just to get back at a co-worker. Its best not to say anything in a moment of anger. Usually those nurses that are lazy, uncaring and have a "I don't give a crap attitude" will stand alone when they have to answer for their behavior. There are not many like this, thank goodness!

[kanzi monkey]

For many work situations you get back what you put into it. I am not denigrating the fact that when you work short-staffed consistently, you are more stressed. However, to blame the female gender for nursing's woes isn't helpful either.

To the OP, your plight has been adequately documented here by your numerous posts about your tough time in school to which you attribute to the female instructors, to the first two jobs that you had where you were fired by two females and now further issues with females.

In all honesty, why in the world did you choose a female-dominated career field? If you are consistently unhappy, sometimes its important to be more introspective.

This post confused me a bit so I actually went and looked at a few of the OPs posts--I couldn't find anything that was denigrating to women. The OP said she (assuming "she") was a feminist--which is, at it's base, a belief that women fundamentally deserve the same rights as men. Pretty simple. The OP did mention that the cattiness might be a result of the field being dominated by women--and, while on the surface I think there's truth to that, I think it's not an explanation, but just another bit of data to add to the pot. Nursing culture is a phenomenon--most aspects of what we encounter socially are not unique to nursing. I think it's a mistake to assume that women are inherently a certain way, thus creating some of the problems we encounter at work. All cultures evolve in response to their environments. So, I think looking at the environment in which nurses work is a good place to start.

I think the OP is making a pretty important observation here, at we're sort of cutting our ears off so to speak if we ignore her argument simply because we're assuming something about her personality that we just can't know.

[sandlewood_nurse]

I agree with the OP. I too don't understand why nurses must exhibit unprofessional behavior. Gossiping, backbiting, blaming, yelling, making others feel stupid for asking a question or learning something .. this is all below us I feel. We all have gone to school and worked so hard .. what for .. so we can be subjected to this type of behaviour in the workplace? I really feel that unlike physicians who will have each other's backs, even if they don't like each other, nurses do the opposite .. they will point out every little mistake and issue loud enough so everyone else can hear .. so you will feel humiliated .. so they can feel like everyone thinks they are so much smarter and better.

I am staying in nursing .. only until I can either get out of it .. or find a work environment where I work with team players .. with supportive staff. I have to stay in nursing at this point to go back to school .. I plan on getting into counselling or doing a masters in an area of nursing where I have more control over my environment. Its sad .. because I really do love the job .. I do love nursing, and there is a nursing shortage. I however don't want to tolerate anymore abuse than I absolutely have to. I ahve a three to five year plan how to get out of this mess .. thats what I see it as . I've tried being positive and changing myself to fit into the mold .. to be quiet .. to be assertive. . nothing works. I'm not an animal and i'm not an idiot who can be replaced by another idiot. Respect is severely lacking in this type of work .. and its totally unnecessary. Saddest thing is .. the patients suffer the most because if everyone thinks like me and leaves .. then they will constantly have unprofessional, or new nurses who are unhappy to take care of them.

[rn/writer, RN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by traumaRUs

For many work situations you get back what you put into it. I am not denigrating the fact that when you work short-staffed consistently, you are more stressed. However, to blame the female gender for nursing's woes isn't helpful either.

To the OP, your plight has been adequately documented here by your numerous posts about your tough time in school to which you attribute to the female instructors, to the first two jobs that you had where you were fired by two females and now further issues with females.

In all honesty, why in the world did you choose a female-dominated career field? If you are consistently unhappy, sometimes its important to be more introspective.

This post confused me a bit so I actually went and looked at a few of the OPs posts--I couldn't find anything that was denigrating to women. The OP said she (assuming "she") was a feminist--which is, at it's base, a belief that women fundamentally deserve the same rights as men. Pretty simple. The OP did mention that the cattiness might be a result of the field being dominated by women--and, while on the surface I think there's truth to that, I think it's not an explanation, but just another bit of data to add to the pot. Nursing culture is a phenomenon--most aspects of what we encounter socially are not unique to nursing. I think it's a mistake to assume that women are inherently a certain way, thus creating some of the problems we encounter at work. All cultures evolve in response to their environments. So, I think looking at the environment in which nurses work is a good place to start.

I think the OP is making a pretty important observation here, at we're sort of cutting our ears off so to speak if we ignore her argument simply because we're assuming something about her personality that we just can't know.

Trauma mistakenly directed her remarks to the OP. She intended them for another poster, a male, who has a long history of posting about problems with women, beginning with his student days and continuing through several jobs, including his current one. He has consistently turned aside suggestions that his own behavior and negative expectations might be a contributing factor and has chosen, instead to focus on gender differences alone.

Trauma apologized for her error in a later post. I posted this because I am certain of her intent, and because I am a moderator of this forum and would like to eliminate any further confusion.

[CaLLaCoDe, BSN, RN]

I hate to sound trite, but one person really can make a difference in a unit. Instead of being forced into the role that is common for nurses to fall into, strive to be the leader and example for change. Don't allow yourself to submit to the stupid "hierarchy" of healthcare professionals. Have an attitude that is constantly positive towards others. I have been in "toxic" work environments in the past but was able to avoid the gossip and sniping. Maybe my coworkers work environment was "toxic" but my own personal work environment was not. Why? Because I have control over my own personal work environment.

I agree. Dolce, your statement is what being a professional is all about!

[Indy, LPN, LVN]

The "culture" of every facility, indeed every unit, is different from every other one, in my experience. So if it's culture that is the problem, finding a new job is probably the solution... within reason. You don't want to run through all the jobs in your area looking for paradise, yano?

I'm a smaller-hospital type gal. I knew I was before I went to school; my jobs as phlebotomist showed me some of the differences but I didn't want to drive far, and so I wound up less than 2 miles from home in my first job. I'll outline some of the broad differences that I noticed, and I know this may not apply to every facility.

Decision making- larger hospital, took some of the ability to make decisions away from the unit managers, or at least that's the impression I got. Budget, amount of on call time, etc. Smaller hospital, you go ask the director and you get a yes or no. Maybe 1/10 of the time you might have to wait for them to ask one more person.

Territoriality- Larger hospital, people very ready to have attitude with another department. There is a lot of "they" didn't do this, always do that, etc. Smaller place, there is less of it to a degree. Housekeeping always seems to get dumped on everywhere but there's not an icu/med surg rivalry, for example. There's not a problem with "radiology" as it's what, two people you normally see so why have a problem with a whole dept. when you can ask soandso if he's having a bad night? If one person always acts snotty, it stands out as one person, and doesn't get turned into a departmental thing.

Floating- very organized in larger facility. It kind of has to be. I worked in a self contained unit with on call time and no obligation to float, of course we sometimes pulled from the float pool to help us out. Smaller place, well I've been in ER and med surg on slow ICU nights. And I see that between ER, med surg, OB, and ICU, people frequently work all four areas when needed. Some nurses have two or three depts. that they like to work and just schedule with the different directors so they don't get bored.

Transfers- Sort of goes with territoriality... on the part of directors. In my first job, larger place, my manager was well known, as were several others, for having the tendency to hang onto their nurses with an iron grip and refuse, delay, or make transfers impossible. Smaller hospital, people transfer all the time. They might get bored or the other dept. might be better able to help with a needed schedule change. In my interview I was told I could work any unit outside my home unit and possibly do supervision if I wanted to. They want to keep ya in house, but not necessarily in your little pigeonhole.

The New Grad Mill- There are some larger hospitals, medium sized, etc. that just thrive off hiring new grads in waves every year, and running 'em through hell, just to get a new bunch the following year when the old bunch quit or go insane. Not every large hospital does this, it does depend on location and other factors. The ones that do, get to depend on it like some sick fetish. Heh. The smaller facility I'm at now has had two new grads this year. That's it. Most of the nurses there have been around a while.

Use of teams- Primary nursing was the way of doing it at the larger hospital that trained me. I may have had a tech to help me what, once or twice a month. So baths, lifting, bed scale (sling) weights, total cares, turning, etc. were all squarely in my ballpark. Which is one reason I looked for another job when understaffing got to be the norm! The smaller place uses CNA's heavily, more LPN's than RN's, etc. RN's need to be: house supervisor, like one in the ER, must have one in ICU, and like to have one in charge on medsurg. (I'm leaving out outpatient surgery and OR as I have no idea how they work.) When I'm in my hideyhole in ICU, I'm in the primary nurse role for my patients and that's comfortable for me. Anywhere else, I'm thinking about helping others because I'm used to doing what they're doing. Their system works, I'm just not used to it.

Now I'll say, my current employer has one weak spot and that's CNA's. We go through them like they are toilet paper, and that's no joke. Heck, they train them and hire them, and then train some more when the old bunch quit. That's a whole area that I have no idea how to fix. It's tempting to call it a microcosm of nursing, because there is fighting between shifts, personality clashes, etc. Unlike nursing, there really does seem to be an inexhaustible pool of people wanting to do the job. (I said seem.) I think if more of the nurses had to work in jobs like my first one, with no help, .... but I don't finish that thought often because their patient loads are bigger than what I had and it can really take all night to pass meds and chart, depending on who your patients are.

It helps if you have a problem with "culture," to sit down and think about what it is that you don't like. Write down the specifics and make the effort to look past the people into the systems, environment, etc. If there are things you want to try to make the current place better, by all means try them. You might make yourself a better nurse and a better person in the process. If those things don't work, you'll have a list of things to look for in your job hunt.

[bagladyrn, RN]

To the OP - you have some valid points,and may be on a particularly toxic unit, but you may also want to look at how some of your actions may have contributed to the situation.

I find that no matter what the job, it is seldom a good idea for the "new guy" to come in and let people know how they see things being done wrong and how they would do things so much better. Can't you just hear the echoes of "and who does she think she is.."? Even if you are relating it to years of experience in a different field, you are not the expert on this environment - YET. Take the time to sit back quitetly and observe, take it all in , try their methods and then when you have been integrated into the group start gently suggesting changes. I'm a travel nurse, so I'm the new one every 13 weeks and never tell the new place "This is how you should do it" unless pt. care is seriously compromised.

As one who considers myself very much a feminist, I'm disappointed that you and others are directly relating all the negative behaviour to being female. I find this stereotyping and counterproductive. It can also be self fulfilling as we often get what we expect from people.

As for the idea of rotating through the hospital, it sounds like a good idea - after you are well oriented in your primary area. You may get further by presenting it in a positive light - to become familiar with various units so that I could be useful to the hospital by floating when needed.

[NursingAgainstdaOdds]

Nursing is rife with class issues. It seems at every turn, there is some sort of class-issue based conflict going on. Doctor-RN, RN-RN, RN-LPN, RN-CNA ... and that's just the people we work with. It strikes me that in a profession which would greatly benefit from unifying across these boundaries, these types of conflicts are constantly antagonized (often by the brass, IMO). If we are constantly distracted by these allegedly personal conflicts with co-workers, we're much less likely to come together as a profession and demand what is rightfully ours, like those pesky safe pt ratios, adequate pay, etc.

You can make a personal decision not to participate in that, and role model that for your co-workers. I agree with the previous poster who said one person can really make a big change for a unit. It's REALLY hard to do, especially when you are the target of some manipulative or unfair behavior (I have been recently!), but we can find other ways to respond to the challenges of our workplace.

Recently I've been getting written-up by the on-coming shift for all sorts of silly things, in the name of alleged "Performance Improvement". Now, I love PI (probably in the minority there ), but mostly the way I see the PI reporting forms being used to rat co-workers out and elevate oneself, not to improve any process issues. It really upset me and I REALLY wanted to lash out at the individual doing this and report every single error (which are many, because we work opposite shifts a lot and it's a busy unit and nobody's perfect!). Ohhhh I really wanted to jump all over her. But, I didn't. I'm still trying to figure out how to address this in a way which doesn't antagonize the dog-eat-dog culture.

[texascowgirl]

we have alot to learn from MEN, and we need to listen, if we want female dominated careers to get the respect that they deserve. thank God i work in areas where there is a large percentage of male nurses. sometimes i am the ONLY female on my shift in the ER and get stuck assigned to the va-jay-jay room.....but thats ok!

The majority of police officers are male...They tend to have a code of silence meaning that if they see any type of wrong doings they would keep quiet..

Now with nurses who are mainly women, as an example, not cleaning a table spill would be reported to the DON..

Guess what, I got reported for not cleaning a spill because it stained the table..

As a male nurse, I find that women tend to thrive on back stabbing people..