so far, love the job, hate the culture

[firstyearstudent]

As a second career nurse, I have over 20 years of work experience and have been rudely slapped in the face this past month at my new RN job by just how horrible nursing culture is. What is up with this? I had some inkling of what was to come in nursing school, but I'm still shocked. As a feminist it saddens me that I can't help thinking this has to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of nurses are women. My complaints so far:

1. Paranoia

2. Coworkers writing each other up or chewing each other out

3. Gossiping about others' mistakes or lack of skills/experience

4. Unfriendliness to new nurses that borders on rudeness

5. Looking down on CNAs, reinforcing a hierarchy that that nurses themselves hate when they deal with doctors

[Just last week a nurse manager at a staff-wide meeting told the CNAs that there were plenty of people lining up for their job. I was shocked!]

But maybe this kind of brutality happens at other "blue collar" jobs, too, and I've just been oblivious because I've always worked at pink collar or white collar jobs.

Why is this happening? What's the dynamic here? Is this workplace hostility coming down from management?

Every time I say something or make a suggestion, something I would do at any other job, I'm looked at like I'm from outer space or like I'm some kind of idiot. For instance, I'm on orientation and I asked if I could take one day and rotate through other parts of our hospital so that I could get a handle on the institution as a whole and I was shut down and given an eye roll by my manager.

[SmilingBluEyes]

to the op, your plight has been adequately documented here by your numerous posts about your tough time in school to which you attribute to the female instructors, to the first two jobs that you had where you were fired by two females and now further issues with females.

in all honesty, why in the world did you choose a female-dominated career field? if you are consistently unhappy, sometimes its important to be more introspective.

amen!!!! great post!

[firstyearstudent]

For many work situations you get back what you put into it. I am not denigrating the fact that when you work short-staffed consistently, you are more stressed. However, to blame the female gender for nursing's woes isn't helpful either.

To the OP, your plight has been adequately documented here by your numerous posts about your tough time in school to which you attribute to the female instructors, to the first two jobs that you had where you were fired by two females and now further issues with females.

In all honesty, why in the world did you choose a female-dominated career field? If you are consistently unhappy, sometimes its important to be more introspective.

I'm not sure what posts you're talking about. Some of my instructors I liked, some I didn't. And this is my first nursing job and I've never been fired from a job. I'm not sure what you are talking about me being consistently unhappy or not instrospective. I don't think much about whether I'm happy or not. It's not an issue that's important to me. (I think most people are too focused on their own "happiness" whatever that is. I'm kind of a Buddhist.) And, frankly, I don't know a person who is more introspective than myself.

I was thinking today about high stress jobs that are traditionally male, such as fireman, police, soldier. The work cultures are very protective and fraternal. Why aren't nurses that way? Maybe because those other jobs are dangerous? I don't know.

Anyway, I chose to be a nurse not because of or in spite of it being female-dominated but because I love nursing and I want to help sick people. Isn't that a good reason? Why do I have to buy into the current culture? Is it that great that someone shouldn't change it? Is it really better to see something you think is wrong and go away because it will make you happier to be somewhere else? Or is it better to work to change it?

I'm not bashing women. I AM ONE. But I don't have pretend everything it great when it's not.

[SmilingBluEyes]

I was in the military 10 years, in a shop that was 98% male. Believe you me, there was PLENTY of backbiting, gossipy and petty behavior there too. I agree that one person CAN make a difference and I treated them how I wanted to be treated. Most I came to respect and they respected me back. Some never could come around but I did not sweat them.

There is also the problem of the toxic workplace. If you are in one of these, nothing you say or do will change it. You have to make the change and walk. But please, do not blame this on nursing being primarily female. This is just not fair nor right IMO.

And not all workplaces are toxic. I have been fortunate not to work in any in my 10 years, anyhow, in several different hospitals.

Like Trauma said, most often, you get what you give. Really in 10 years as a nurse and 10 years of prior military service, that was SO VERY TRUE.

[llg, PhD, RN]

Anyway, I chose to be a nurse not because of or in spite of it being female-dominated but because I love nursing.

... but could it be that you don't like nurses very much?

There is a movie called "Mass Appeal" about 2 priests (played by Jack Lemmon and Zjelco Ivanek). In it the younger priest is hyper-critical of the people in his congregation. One conversation in the movie goes something like this:

Older guy: "Why are you so hard on them?"

Younger guy: "Because I want them to be better."

Older guy: "But how do you feel about these people? Do you love them?"

Younger guy: "Yes."

Older guy: "Then love them for who they are"

If you are ever going to have a satisfying career in nursing, you have to learn to accept nursing for what it is -- a stressful career that sometimes brings out the best in people -- and other times, brings out the worst.

We can and should all acknowledge the problems within our profession and work to improve ourselves and encourage positive growth in our collegues. However, at some level, we have to come to terms with the fact that not all nurses will always behave the way we want them to -- and we have to accept them as collegues, too.

Instead of pointing our fingers and saying "Those nurses are behaving badly," we have to accept the fact that "those nurses" are "us." That's an important necessary step in promoting a more positive culture. We must consider ourselves a part of it and change it from the inside.

[nightmare, RN]

Isn't it just the case that we are all stressed out from working short staffed and therefore not being able to do what we consider our best for our patients? This leads to dissatisfaction and general unrest because we have this vision that if only we had more nurses/carers/equipment/better facilities we would be better at caring for our patients. The need to stand out as better and more caring "I'm the only one that cares" (A pet hate of mine!) Dissatisfaction can quickly spiral into a very toxic workplace!

[prmenrs, RN]

I think Firstyearstudent has a legitimate issue. (by the way, if you want a new user name, it can be done!)

I think MBA2BRN summed it up well. You're basically in an untenable position. As soon as it is feasible, move on. You deserve MUCH better!

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Where I work only charge nurses and managers can write people up. That doesn't sound good when coworkers are allowed to write each other up. No wonder it's so toxic.

But I agree with above, that you have to rise above and not sink to their level and not be all those things you are criticizing them about.

I'm not sure I would pay an employee to rotate through the hospital to just get a feel for things, but would be happy to arrange it on your time off. Time on orientation is short and while this may enhance your personal growth and development, it's not practical.

You might have to just "put in your time", such as a year and then move on.

[jjjoy, LPN]

I'm not sure I would pay an employee to rotate through the hospital to just get a feel for things, but would be happy to arrange it on your time off. Time on orientation is short and while this may enhance your personal growth and development, it's not practical.

In regard to the OP trying to negotiate some extra orientation, I wouldn't be too hard on her. If you come from a nursing background, you know that this is uncommon. On the other hand, you know that it's common to have to watch safety videos and to attend a general hospital orientation - which is done on paid time. And there ARE companies out there that are willing to pay to enhance their employees' personal growth and development. It can be practical if it enhances the employee's satisfaction and increases their likelihood of staying over the long haul. While many companies wouldn't be willing to pay for that extra orientation, I think most would be polite about it, simply saying 'sorry, no' and not huff and roll their eyes and deem the applicant some kind of self-appointed princess to even request it.

In regard to the nursing culture the OP complains of... it's true that there are bad apples in every field and that bad work environments also exist in every field. Depending on what field you're comparing it, too, I do think there are differences, at least on the surface. While office environments may have back-stabbing and gossip, my experience was that it was more covert. In the hospitial environment (not all, of course), rude comments and eye-rolling were more obvious and not hidden from view of the victim. I think part of it is that nurses aren't often in one place together for more than a few minutes. It's easier to "hit and run" with a snide comment. In an office environment, the employees have to sit near each other for extended periods which leads to different forms of dysfunction.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

Nursing has always tended to attract women with low self-esteems. We are all fully aware that persons who are afflicted with low self esteems need a massive amount of validation and ego-boosting in order to feel better about themselves. Unfortunately, the quickest way for a person with low self esteem to feel temporarily better is to insult newer nurses, CNAs, and others who are presumed to be "lower" on the invisible hierarchy of the healthcare facility.

Some RNs who possess low self esteems receive momentary thrills by speaking in ways that belittle new nurses, LPNs and CNAs. For some strange reason, their egos are temporarily boosted when they insult others. You must always remember that a person does not feel the need to insult another human being unless their own self esteem is lacking.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

I was thinking today about high stress jobs that are traditionally male, such as fireman, police, soldier. The work cultures are very protective and fraternal. Why aren't nurses that way? Maybe because those other jobs are dangerous? I don't know.

Most of the male-dominated professions (physicians, engineers, CEOs, etc) have protective cultures. Nurses will tattle on each other in a New York minute, but you simply do not see this occurring in other professions. Nurses will frequently report other nurses to the BON, but male doctors will often cover for each other. Other professions simply are not faltering due to bizarre professional cultures, but nursing is definitely far from impeccable.

As nurses, we've got to stop bringing each other down!

[montieICURN]

Yeah, sorry to say you're right. Working with women in this field is a lot like high school. There is no real hand holding or singing Kumbya. It's a shame really. If you have good leaders in the unit, it can be overcome.

[rnmomtobe2010]

From reading the original poster's thread, my question to everyone is is it always like this when first starting out? Now I am more afraid than ever!! Some people can be so horrible and I don't understand.