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Hello,
i would like some opinions on my experience. I am filing a grievance with my school because I am being failed for clinical. This was my first semester of nursing for an associates degree. I passed all written test with a B and the final skills again however I was failed for clinical.
I had a feeling right from the beginning that my instructor did not like me for some reason. The way she talked to me. On our first day of clinical my instructor failed to explain certain rules such as where to use our phones if we receive an important call she said to take them “off the floor”. She said that what”happens in clinical stays in clinical “ whatever that means and sent an email to our group stating this. I was having an issue with doing an assignment and my instructor was not around the second week of my semester and I asked another instructor for help. The instructor told me that my instructor was not doing the assignment correctly and she asked to speak with the instructor when she came in. I am not sure if I got my instructor in trouble or not. That was not my intention. She later sent out an email that night stating that what happens in clinical stays in clinical . I felt like this might have started the getting off on the wrong foot type of thing. I was using my phone one day and my instructor told me that I was using it in the wrong area and was very upset with me. I apologized and told her I thought I was off the floor and I didn’t know where I should be using it. My instructor pulled me aside the next day and told me I was failing clinical. When I asked what for she told me that it was for using my phone in the wrong area , for being late once (I was), and also because I seemed “disinterested” . I thought that was a very subjective reason to fail me so I asked her is there anything I did wrong to make her feel that way. She told me she saw me sitting down in lab one day for a few minutes. I explained to her that I have a chronic illness and my legs hurt from time to time and we had been standing that day for five hours without a break. She said “ok well we all have our problems I just need to see more interest from you”. I felt we response was harsh and not very understanding and I just got a bad feeling and thought she was treating me this way in relation to the assignment I might have gotten her into trouble for so I asked to meet with the nursing director.
I met with the director and told her about what was going on . I told her I didn’t like the way my instructor spoke to me condescendingly and also how when I told her about my issue with my legs she didn’t respond very compassionately. The director told me to make sure I am on time in the future and to maybe explain in more detail to my instructor what is going on with my health and she would also talk to my instructor about her treatment towards me. I thought that it was none of my isntructors business about my health , I had already given her enough information and I did not want to make it seem like I was throwing a pity party. But I did get an accommodation from my school, even though we aren’t required to stand in lab, that said I would need frequent breaks for my legs. I never heard back from the director about her meeting with my instructor but I was told about two weeks later that I was getting a clinical warning. I showed up to the meeting and was given a warning for :
1) being late once
2) being on my phone in wrong area
3) sitting down in lab and it says I was on my phone (I don’t remember exactly what I was doing but I know I was taking a break) apparently we can’t have phones in lab I did not know this
4) a patient I had was found with “her pants around her ankles and I could not be found anywhere “
i said that I accepted the other three things but this was the first I was hearing about this patient. I asked if there was a call light left with the patient and if it was verified if the patient pulled her pants down herself. The director looked at my instructor and asked her this and my instructor shook her head no and threw her hands up like she didn’t know. I then said well why should I be given a warning for something not verified? The director then said that I need to still take responsibility for my patients even if I did not pull her pants down. I thought this was ridiculous. She also said perhaps I should tell someone where I’m going if im going to be away from the patient for a long time. I told her that I was never told this and patients are left alone for sometimes half an hour and I was gone 10-15 mins at most . Nothing was said and I was still given this warning.
I was given a second warning because a patient complained about me and a cna having an innapropriate conversation. The cna was talking to me about her boyfriend getting a vasectomy in front of a patient and I did not know what to do or say so I kept changing the subject. I did not report this because I did not want it to come back on to me from the cna and receive any kind of retaliation from the CNA. My instructor went to speak with the patient I believe and then notified the director of this. I explained that I was not told what I should do in this type of situation and it wasn’t until later in the semester that we were told to report these things to our instructor . I was told it was common sense to have reported this or told the cna she was behaving innapropriately. I disagreed.
Another patient complained that I “didn’t know what I was doing” and didn’t want me back. The previous day I had been caring for this patient heavily medicated on narcotics and she was in a very bad mood. She wanted me to leave her alone most of the time, would not let me assess her completely, kept asking for pain medication when it wasn’t due, and became upset when a bandage she had been getting from a cna was not given to her by me. I couldn’t give it to her because the bandage needed an order and the cna was giving it without one. I spoke to the nurse on duty and she said the bandage was innapropriate for her foot which just had dry skin on it. I told her this and she became upset. I told my instructor how can a patient claim to know that I don’t know what I’m doing if their not a doctor or nurse? I told her her complaint was vague and that she just wanted something I couldn’t give her. My instructor said well I will get more information. She came back and told me well the patient said that you didn’t assess her fully and really if your patient was in a bad mood like you said you should have came to me. I said “well you never told me to report on a patients mood this is the first I’m hearing of this so why should I be written up for this?” And she told me she had to report it anyways. It was true that the patient would only let me listen to her lungs to a certain extent because she was in a bad mood . I documented this on my clinical sheet but I did not report it to my instructor.
I met with the director again and told her that I was having issues communicating with my instructor still. I told her that she had become so rude that I didn’t feel comfortable speaking to her at all Especially when she was rude in front of my peers to me. I told her that I am being failed for things that were not communicated to me. She said well you are being given another clinical warning but you still have a week left of class and if you meet the objectives you may still pass. She didn’t say anything about how my instructor was acting and said she had a meeting to go to. I was given another warning. This time I brought a support person who was there for support but also really to be a witness to this all. He was from the school in a different department. He told me it seemed like they were failing me for petty reasons and for things that were not communicated to me.
I was walking in school one day and someone told me that I was not supposed to have mace on my key ring. A security guard came and took it away. I apologized and said I didn’t know because it was legal everywhere else. This week was the last week of clinical and my instructor said I did very well and met all the objectives. She told me I would pass clinical. I went for my clinical evelauation however and the director told me I failed! She said she had given it thought and decided that overall looking at the semester as a whole I had not met the objectives. They also brought up the mace. I said well I did not bring it to clinical and it was an honest mistake and I was also told that if I met these objectives by a certain date I would pass! I was told sorry but the decision has been made.
I filed a grievance with the school and I also went to my clinical location. I asked to see the complaints against me. I was told by the director there that she only deals with the school because of HIPA and also that the complaints are verbal and that nothing was written down. I think that I shouldn’t be failed based on basically hearsay then if that’s the truth! My aunt who is a nurse said that the director there could have been telling me the truth because incident reports are only written over serious things but she also said maybe you should go back and have a witness to hear her say that they don’t write things down on patients complaints. I still have the other things against me which I don’t know if that’s enough to fail me over but am I right to think that they can’t fail me if these things weren’t written down? I know that the way it happened with the complaints is that a nurse passed a message on to staff for the following day about the complaint. The staff that day then told my instructor about it . Then I believe my instructor spoke to the patient . Then my instructor called the director or texted her about it. There could possibly be a text about what my instructor heard from the patient that was sent to the director but that’s it! Unless this director of the clinical is lying to me and it is written down somewhere . What do you think?
13 hours ago, tonyl1234 said:This obsession against phones needs to end. If it was that she got caught with the phone out once, point it out, tell her where to make sure she goes first, and then leave it at that. She does not work for the hospital. She's a student. Maybe she was keeping watch for an important email from her teacher. Maybe a parent sent her an important message. It's just a phone. She's there to LEARN, not work.
Not informing someone was stupid, but the extent of informing someone should really only be limited to the teacher. The nurse is still responsible for being the patient's nurse. The aide is still responsible for being the aide. The only time her being gone should be an issue is if they had a reason to be relying on her for some planned aspect of patient care, that even still, it's the RNs responsibility to ensure that it's done.
Clinicals have become more of a hazing than a learning experience. After learning the basics, the student should not be answering call lights to change diapers. That time should be spent learning. If you're not doing something related to practicing a nursing skill, you should be talking to your teacher about that patient, you should be studying why all their treatment is being done the way it is. Help out when you can, but this expectation that the nursing student has become a full time private CNA for the day for that patient needs to end. Clinicals are about applying what you learn to real patients, they're not there so that you can practice being an aide. You're paying them, not the other way around, students should not be treated like employees.
You had me at your first sentence, and then you lost me.
This obsession with phones needs to end. I fail to understand why people need to be on their phones at all times, although I've been told it's an addiction. If there is a truly important reason why you have to have your phone accessible and answer it at all times -- your mother is in heart transplant surgery and she's the patient, your child is in the PICU and could try to die at any second, your husband is MIA and there's an operation in place to try to rescue him -- explain it to your instructor BEFORE you bring your phone out in class, in the skills lab, in clinical. You are paying to learn, it seems you would want to get the most for your money. (Or perhaps YOU aren't paying, and that's the problem.)
Even students should be available at all times when they're on the unit. If I have to track you down to show you this once-in-a- career procedure, I may not bother and show another student instead. If the charge nurse wants to offer you a chance to observe a surgery but she cannot find you, she WILL tell your instructor.
But like I said, the student does not work for the hospital. The student is not the person responsible for the patient's care. If they're on their phone, they're hurting themselves. They're going to fail, they're not going to become a nurse, problem solved. Plus, how do you know that they're not looking up details of a diagnosis that the patient has, or looking up something that they noticed? In some places, computers are very limited. That phone can be a great resource.
As for finding them, they shouldn't be constantly off the unit, but they also shouldn't be functioning as a full time aide either. Again, they're not there to work, they're there to learn. They should help, but it should also be expected that there's going to be a lot of time spent in researching, and studying... Because if they can't connect what they learn in the classroom to their patient, I wouldn't want them taking care of me.
As far as the phone, I got written up for using the phone Once in the wrong area. I apologized and it didn’t happen again. But to kick me out of the program and then make it so that I have little chance of entering the nursing career again I think was overkill. These little things I felt had no bearing on me being a good nurse or not, they were just misunderstandings blown out of proportion I felt. Another student who had forgot to lock her patients wheelchair( a legitimate safety concern compared to using your phone in a wrong area) and her patient started wheeling herself around the unit and got lost. Her patient had Dementia and would have never wheeled herself around if her wheelchair had been locked. My instructor saw this and didn’t write this girl up. I asked the girl curiously if she got written up and told her that I had been and she said no. I mean, she could have lied to me I guess but I doubt it. When I brought this to the attention of the nursing faculty they told me to focus on myself and that I don’t know if other students had gotten written up. I did see the instructor allow students to use their phones to look up things, but students would say “oh let me look that up on my phone “ and would tell her. As far as telling someone I would be leaving a patient, that should be communicated to a student. Who am I to tell? The cna ? The nurse ? That was never explained. I assumed that because there was a cna and nurse assigned to my patient that I would not have to notify someone if I was leaving the patient because they periodically came in and checked on their patients. The other students probably did not make the mistakes I made such as phone use and notifying someone because they were all working in nursing homes or hospitals as CNAs so they knew proper procedures I think for phone use and signing off with someone etc. I did see people on their phones but they didn’t answer a call like I had. This was my first time working in this type of setting .What we were told to do each day was to care for our patient, and then when there are times where there is nothing to do for our patient to go and care for other patients. We were basically doing what the CNAs did all day, in between caring for our patients . It was made clear to us that there will be times in our career where we may have to act as a CNA and that a nurse should never see herself as beneath giving a patient a bed bath or putting a patient on a bedpan. I don’t know if that’s how nurses are taught in most nursing schools, just responding to the person who posted that we aren’t supposed to be doing the cna work.
8 minutes ago, Misscruella said:As far as the phone, I got written up for using the phone Once in the wrong area. I apologized and it didn’t happen again. But to kick me out of the program and then make it so that I have little chance of entering the nursing career again I think was overkill. These little things I felt had no bearing on me being a good nurse or not, they were just misunderstandings blown out of proportion I felt. Another student who had forgot to lock her patients wheelchair( a legitimate safety concern compared to using your phone in a wrong area) and her patient started wheeling herself around the unit and got lost. Her patient had Dementia and would have never wheeled herself around if her wheelchair had been locked. My instructor saw this and didn’t write this girl up. I asked the girl curiously if she got written up and told her that I had been and she said no. I mean, she could have lied to me I guess but I doubt it. When I brought this to the attention of the nursing faculty they told me to focus on myself and that I don’t know if other students had gotten written up. I did see the instructor allow students to use their phones to look up things, but students would say “oh let me look that up on my phone “ and would tell her. As far as telling someone I would be leaving a patient, that should be communicated to a student. Who am I to tell? The cna ? The nurse ? That was never explained. I assumed that because there was a cna and nurse assigned to my patient that I would not have to notify someone if I was leaving the patient because they periodically came in and checked on their patients. The other students probably did not make the mistakes I made such as phone use and notifying someone because they were all working in nursing homes or hospitals as CNAs so they knew proper procedures I think for phone use and signing off with someone etc. This was my first time working in this type of setting .What we were told to do each day was to care for our patient, and then when there are times where there is nothing to do for our patient to go and care for other patients. We were basically doing what the CNAs did all day, in between caring for our patients . It was made clear to us that there will be times in our career where we may have to act as a CNA and that a nurse should never see herself as beneath giving a patient a bed bath or putting a patient on a bedpan. I don’t know if that’s how nurses are taught in most nursing schools, just responding to the person who posted that we aren’t supposed to be doing the cna work.
Most nursing schools teach their students to be as helpful as possible in clinical. They do that for a number of reasons -- one of them being that it's a privilege to be allowed to bring your students to a clinical site, and the instructors want to leave a good impression. Another is that when we as nurses see a student who works hard, asks good questions, is helpful and reliable, we speak to the nurse manager about hiring them when they're through school. You can look at your clinical as part of a semester-long job interview. Even if you're SURE you don't want to work at this particular clinical site, your dream job may be across town at the other hospital, where the nurse manager is best friends with the nurse who has been working with you at your clinical site. (Sounds far-fetched, but I've seen it happen more than once. And one time, the student moved across the country to find a job and wound up working for a nurse she had worked with in her very first clinical.)
The more patients with whom you interact, the easier it becomes to interact with patients. The more poop you clean up, the easier that becomes, and if you're helpful to a nurse, she may give you something more interesting to do. If a student impresses us, we may advocate for them to get more interesting patients or to see that rare procedure. We're not going to be impressed by a student who we've observed to be using her phone on the unit, or who cannot be located when we want her to see that interesting thing.
The CNA you're working with may be a fourth year nursing student who can help you understand something. Or they may be able to tell you the best way to change that dressing, set up that lunch tray or toilet that patient. CNAs are valuable resources. I learned a great deal of what I know from CNAs. You can learn from everyone, if you pay attention. So help that CNA -- and know that we pay attention to them when they say "Misscruella would be a good fit for our unit," or "Don't hire her; she's toxic."
And yes -- if the nurse and the CNA believe you to be with a patient, then you should tell them when you are not -- even if you're just going into the conference room to talk with your instructor.
On 1/27/2019 at 12:09 PM, Misscruella said:As far as the phone, I got written up for using the phone Once in the wrong area. I apologized and it didn’t happen again. But to kick me out of the program and then make it so that I have little chance of entering the nursing career again I think was overkill. These little things I felt had no bearing on me being a good nurse or not, they were just misunderstandings blown out of proportion I felt. Another student who had forgot to lock her patients wheelchair( a legitimate safety concern compared to using your phone in a wrong area) and her patient started wheeling herself around the unit and got lost. Her patient had Dementia and would have never wheeled herself around if her wheelchair had been locked. My instructor saw this and didn’t write this girl up. I asked the girl curiously if she got written up and told her that I had been and she said no. I mean, she could have lied to me I guess but I doubt it. When I brought this to the attention of the nursing faculty they told me to focus on myself and that I don’t know if other students had gotten written up. I did see the instructor allow students to use their phones to look up things, but students would say “oh let me look that up on my phone “ and would tell her. As far as telling someone I would be leaving a patient, that should be communicated to a student. Who am I to tell? The cna ? The nurse ? That was never explained. I assumed that because there was a cna and nurse assigned to my patient that I would not have to notify someone if I was leaving the patient because they periodically came in and checked on their patients. The other students probably did not make the mistakes I made such as phone use and notifying someone because they were all working in nursing homes or hospitals as CNAs so they knew proper procedures I think for phone use and signing off with someone etc. I did see people on their phones but they didn’t answer a call like I had. This was my first time working in this type of setting .What we were told to do each day was to care for our patient, and then when there are times where there is nothing to do for our patient to go and care for other patients. We were basically doing what the CNAs did all day, in between caring for our patients . It was made clear to us that there will be times in our career where we may have to act as a CNA and that a nurse should never see herself as beneath giving a patient a bed bath or putting a patient on a bedpan. I don’t know if that’s how nurses are taught in most nursing schools, just responding to the person who posted that we aren’t supposed to be doing the cna work.
I'm sorry but I am still seeing just a bunch of excuses and justifications here. Why are you so focused on what other students did instead of focusing on what you can do to improve your chances going forward?
For instance complaining about a fellow student not being written up for failing to lock wheelchair brakes? Well, where I work locking the brakes on a wheelchair if if limits the ability of that patient moving around as wanted is actually considered a restraint. A student doing a clinical rotation with us is more likely to get talked to for locking those brakes instead of failing to lock them.
I think the whole using your phone thing has been beaten to death. There are very few places and circumstances when using your phone would be acceptable and you failed to clear using your phone in that place and time with your instructor.
Also your failure to inform somebody you were leaving your patient has been pretty well addressed. Whether it was the CNA or nurse that is responsible for your patient or whether it was your instructor is not important, what is important is that you left without telling anybody. You can't just assume that because facility staff is ultimately responsible for that patient that they will be checking on the patient frequently. If they had reason to expect you to be with that patient then you need to let somebody know when you are not.
Final point, you can stop semi-complaining about basically working as a CNA. What exactly do you think nursing fundamentals is? CNA work is the foundation for your future nursing skills. While performing those basic skills with a patient you will also be applying your knowledge towards assessing and deciding on the best course of nursing treatment for your patient.
I am a nursing student in my second semester. Prior to nursing school, I had zero experience in patient care or hands-on medical care. I did not expect to be explicitly told EVERYTHING that was expected of me; I expected for ground rules to be laid out and for me to follow them. For example, in our student handbook, there is a rule regarding behavior in the clinical setting: "Students are expected to be prompt, professional and maintain communication with the nursing staff and clinical instructor throughout the clinical day." When that was said to me, I took that to mean: no cell phones (period) during clinical; ask nurses and CNAs if they need help with anything AFTER I've checked on my own patient(s); inform at least one individual on my patient's healthcare team and my clinical instructor if I need to step off the floor for ANY reason; and to basically make sure I have my crap together.
You stated in your original post you immediately felt like the clinical instructor did not like you. Rather than buckle down and make sure she had absolutely no reason to dock you, you were late, you had your cell phone out, you sat during a lab (medical reasons need to be discussed beforehand- that's simply common sense), and then you went over her head to try to get the situation resolved. I currently have a professor I know is less than fond of me, so I am doing my absolute best to make sure she has zero reason to even consider taking points away from me. Unfortunately, this seems to be the sort of situation where you've made your own bed. I wish you luck in the future, should you choose to change schools.
You broke the chain of command by going over the instructor's head. One of the biggest mistakes in the working/ scholastic world. Think about it, you reported your instructor to THEIR boss.
Your chronic illness , that limits how long you can stand... is also a huge issue Was this addressed during your nursing school application?
I'm still in my first quarter in the RN program, I have five kids, I'm a single mom, and when I'm in clinical, I keep my phone on me, but it's on silent. The ONLY time I look at my phone is on bathroom breaks, lunch break, or when we're in the conference room where it was explicitly said we could use them.
Yesterday, we were at clinicals all of 30 minutes before I got a message from my 13 year old freaking out because my 8 year old fell out of bed and they thought her arm might be dislocated or broken. I happened to get the message quickly because I was still in the conference room, but they were going to call me at the location if I hadn't answered anyway, as this was an emergency. I legit have zero reason to have a phone out on the floor, whether it's directly on the floor or in a side vestibule or whatever. None. And that's with all of my spawn at home. (Kid is fine btw, after a fun trip to the ER, we figured out she angered some muscles and tendons and has a lovely bruise) I can't see any possible reason for you to have your phone out, ever.
I also have several issues medically, and I have not yet formally filed paperwork (though I am going to), but my instructors also know that I have those medical issues. It's not favoritism, it's being real and knowing your limitations and risks for having trouble within the program. The same goes with my kids. They know I have way too many crotch goblins, I'm not looking for special treatment, I'm being realistic. Plus, no offense, but I thought it was common knowledge that nurses are on their feet all day long, it would seem prudent to take care of that issue ahead of time knowing this.
As for the other stuff, it sounds like some of it was justified and some was just dislike from the instructor. We all have issues with people here and there, the difference is how we handle it, as others pointed out.
To the OP: view this as lessons learned. Repeat the course and don't make the same mistakes again.
As for CNAs, they are invaluable. I suggest you take and complete a CNA program through your community college or the Red Cross. This will provide you with valuable skills and experience. In addition, many nursing students work part time as CNAs during nursing school to make some extra $. Working as a CNA at a hospital will give you a leg up on getting a job there after you get your RN and will look very good on your resume.
It does sound like this instructor just didn't like you. It happens. It happened to me and I just sucked up like crazy and managed to pass the clinical. Your goal is to pass.
Good luck.
To cari1030, you instructor seems pretty understanding of your health issues. I as well didn’t want to look like I was asking for special treatment. I didn’t know what kind of program it was and I didn’t want to be targeted either. Unfortunately I became targeted for a different reason, because I complained about my instructor. I also didn’t want the possibility of someone saying to me “well how can you be a nurse if you need to sit down and take breaks?” Here’s what happened after it was brought to my instructors attention that I had a health issue: I was told that because I didn’t have an official accommodation allowing me to sit down and take breaks that they had to treat me as everyone else. Meaning I could not take breaks ! They basically made it difficult for me throughout the program. And to the other posters, damn right I’m going to report my clinical instructor if she is treating me differently and telling me I’m failing for a subjective reason such as “appearing disinterested”. Are you kidding? We were allowed to use phones and I had to take an emergency phone call about my dog who has health issues. I just took the phone call in the wrong area. It was a simple mistake. Anyone could have made it. It has no bearing on whether I would make a good nurse and I also shouldn’t be barred from attending another nursing school but my instructor is pretty much making that a reality for me because I am being failed for unsafe/unprofessional conduct and many schools will not let you in with this on your record.
Kbrn2002, I can see you commented on my thread without reading it all. A poster was saying that I should not be doing what a CNA does all day. I was explaining to that poster what our student nurses do in our first semester, I was not complaining. If you had read my thread you would see that I agree that someone should be notified when I am leaving a patient but this was not communicated to me. I should not be responsible for something if it is not communicated to me, I am not a mind reader. I brought up the fact about how other students were being treated because instructors are supposed to treat all students fairly and equally. If you had read the post I described that my instructor allowed other students to show up late and make mistakes but I received a clinical warning. That is not fair and shows bias.
TheDudeWithTheBigDog, ADN, RN
678 Posts
This obsession against phones needs to end. If it was that she got caught with the phone out once, point it out, tell her where to make sure she goes first, and then leave it at that. She does not work for the hospital. She's a student. Maybe she was keeping watch for an important email from her teacher. Maybe a parent sent her an important message. It's just a phone. She's there to LEARN, not work.
Not informing someone was stupid, but the extent of informing someone should really only be limited to the teacher. The nurse is still responsible for being the patient's nurse. The aide is still responsible for being the aide. The only time her being gone should be an issue is if they had a reason to be relying on her for some planned aspect of patient care, that even still, it's the RNs responsibility to ensure that it's done.
Clinicals have become more of a hazing than a learning experience. After learning the basics, the student should not be answering call lights to change diapers. That time should be spent learning. If you're not doing something related to practicing a nursing skill, you should be talking to your teacher about that patient, you should be studying why all their treatment is being done the way it is. Help out when you can, but this expectation that the nursing student has become a full time private CNA for the day for that patient needs to end. Clinicals are about applying what you learn to real patients, they're not there so that you can practice being an aide. You're paying them, not the other way around, students should not be treated like employees.