Experienced Nurses Only

rn/writer, RN · Oct 6, 2006

did you ever think that maybe there's some truth to these comments? that's one of the benefits of a web site like this - getting different perspectives and insights on topics. it's not a site where everyone is going to agree with you - and do you want it like that? (well, you probably do.)
even if there is truth to the comments, there are times when you just want a listening ear. when i need to let off steam, the last thing i want at that moment is someone else's perspective and insights. i want the freedom to say ouch without being criticized for feeling the pain. even if i need helpful hints, i'm not quite ready to hear them just then.
why do so many "experienced" nurses want to shut out the new generations of nurses? don't you feel some kind of obligation to help progress nursing?
needing to vent is hardly shutting out new generations of nurses. i could turn this question around and ask why do so many aspiring nurses and students begrudge the veterans the chance to express what they're going through. as experienced nurses, we should be able to have bad days and feel frustrated, sad, afraid, lonely and the rest of the emotional gamut without that being interpretted as a lack of caring for those behind us on the path. no one should be so fragile that they can't let someone else be real without crying foul.
when i started out as a nurse (no - i'm not a student anymore) i fondly looked up to experienced nurses and admired them. but then when i started getting snooty comments, rolling eyes, being "tattled' on, and treated like i was a burden, my attitude changed. i was crushed and almost wanted to leave nursing. pretty juvenile behavior from such "experienced" nurses.
the reality is that the young of any species or profession are a "burden" to some extent. it takes time and energy and effort to grow a child or a nurse. for the most part, this is a special trust and an honor. nurses who forget they came up through the ranks can create shame and fear in the newbies, and this is wrong. the flip side is that we have needs, too. we aren't paragons of virtue whose sole purpose is to nurture others. sometimes we need a break and a little slack. it would be nice to get that without being judged as letting others down.
it's such a shame, and very hurtful to our industry. sure - everyone needs to vent, but learn some more healthy - and less harmful - ways to cope. new nurses - and students - shouldn't have to pay for your unhappiness. the worst part of this whole phenomenon is that many students/new nurses are missing out on learning from your valuable experiences. very sad.
maybe venting posts should be labeled, "enter at your own risk." anyone who finds a "letting off steam" post offensive should probably avoid such threads. venting is a form of coping and it need not amount to making newbies and students pay for your unhappiness. sometimes all you need to feel better is to discharge the emotions and have someone else say, "i totally understand." that little bit of connection can make all the difference in the world.

newbies, students, wanna-bes (not meant offensively), please understand that no one, no matter how much she likes her job, is always positive. bad things happen. dysfunctional people cross your path. real life intrudes.

i think one of the problems with experienced nurses venting is that aspiring nurses see it out of context and it can scare them. they don't know about the good times because we're not talking about that at the moment. other nurses who've been around awhile can fill in the blanks. they can often distinguish between someone who's having a temporary snit and someone who is headed down a dangerous path.

when we're in dire straits, we have to take care of ourselves and sometimes that means we're don't have much left to take care of others. we need to direct our energy at solving problems and sorting out feeings and we don't want to feel like we have to hold everything in because some might not understand and be damaged by our candor.

experienced nurses should remember that they were green and needy when they started out. they should help the newbies feel comfortable with asking questions and do any necessary correcting with respect.

newbies and aspiring nurses should acknowledge that there is much they don't know about the real world of nursing and not assume that veteran nurses who have occasional struggles are bitter and burned out. let us be where we are and we'll try to do the same for you.

vampiregirl, BSN, RN · Oct 6, 2006

When I read the op, I'll admit I was a little offended (ok, I'm a student... can you guess?). But as I read further along in the thread, I began to look at this topic a little differently. I'm glad to get some insight into how posters feel about other's responses (nurses, nursing students, etc...). I guess it encouraged me to think a little more before I post a response, to reflect as to whether I am adding something insightful or useful, or whether I am adding just another post to a thread. So, while I'm still not sure that I agree with the OP's approach, I do think that this topic needed to be discussed.

PANurseRN1 · Oct 6, 2006

Miranda, you stated exactly what I was thinking so beautifully!

Halinja, BSN, RN · Oct 7, 2006

Maybe I'm just adding another post...without thinking.

But.

I LIKE reading the ventings and the letting off of steam. I'm old enough to know there is no job that is perfect. When experienced nurses let down their hair, I can read that and think...okay, that kind of sucks, but it wouldn't destroy me. It makes the job more real, and more realistic. If someone tells me their job is all sweetness and light, I get wary. I wonder if they're going to try and sell me the Brooklyn Bridge next.

I think I may have been guilty on this board of being all happy about nursing when someone was having a bad day, and now that I have read this thread, I realize I may have been insensitive. Sorry! (I'll brush up on my therapeutic communications)

I hope that the time doesn't come when the experienced nurses shut those of us that are still learning away from their experiences...good or bad.

If a nurse can't vent here on allnurses...wow, where WOULD it be appropriate? So please, don't hold back on my account!

a student nurse

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Oct 7, 2006

Why do so many "experienced" nurses want to shut out the new generations of nurses? Don't you feel some kind of obligation to help progress nursing?
When I started out as a nurse (no - I'm not a student anymore) I fondly looked up to experienced nurses and admired them. But then when I started getting snooty comments, rolling eyes, being "tattled' on, and treated like I was a burden, my attitude changed. I was crushed and almost wanted to leave nursing. Pretty juvenile behavior from such "experienced" nurses.
It's such a shame, and very hurtful to our industry. Sure - everyone needs to vent, but learn some more healthy - and less harmful - ways to cope. New nurses - and students - shouldn't have to pay for your unhappiness. The worst part of this whole phenomenon is that many students/new nurses are missing out on learning from your valuable experiences. Very sad.
Anyway, I totally understand the desire for an experienced nurses forum. Experienced nurses have a different perspective. But perhaps you should nix the "exclusiveness" of it, and stop separating yourselves from the unworthy, less experienced students. That makes people lose a lot of respect for you.

No one wants to "shut out" new generations of nurses. But occasionally, we would like a moment's piece when we don't have to put on the "Let's protect everyone from all bad feelings, unprofessional thoughts and utterances" face that stuffs all the true, good, bad, and often ugly inside....and eventially leads us to self destruct if we do not discuss. Especially if your SO is tired of hearing it.

Do I feel an obligation to "progress" nursing? Not if it requires perpetually putting on a fake angelic smile, and acting like everything is absolutely perfect. There are days, when it is doing everything I can TO GET THROUGH THE DAY with professional demeanor, without having to "progress nursing".

There is a point when we have to kick away the large amount of unusable things they discussed as theory in school and start dealing with reality.

It isn't about students being unworthy - it is about being able to discuss real things, without seeing the "Oh, this scaring me", "Oh, that's so mean", "Oh, my. you did it wrong....in class the other day ....". Or the "I think that the BSN should be mandatory because my instructor says.." from someone who hasn't cared for a patient on his/her own yet.

(PS. Could someone PLEASE send a memo to every instructor of every NS in the USA. Include a threat for them to beaten to death by used C-Diff bedpans if they EVER assign another student to do a paper on RN/BSN/ADN and suggest them to use nursing BB internet sources to do it with)

And as far as "snooty attitudes", "Rolling eyes", and "tattling", students/new grads do quite a bit of that to older nurses also.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

To the OP:

Some of us go to less moderated forums, where some such discussion is considered acceptable. Of course, some people find such BBs difficult, because they only want "their" opinion uncensored, but have trouble dealing everyone else's uncensored opinions..

Or there are BBs that may be more geared to experienced nurses that may be a comfortable. option.

piper_for_hire · Oct 7, 2006

I was on this board before and after nursing school and I think it's just fine the way that it is.

-S

TazziRN, RN · Oct 7, 2006

Wow....I can't believe I made it this late in the day before seeing this thread!

I have nothing against students posting and venting and asking questions....that is how they learn and we experienced nurses can learn a lot from them. HOWEVER......I do have a problem with venting only to be told by students and wannabe's that we have a poor attitude and how can we talk to pts that way, etc. etc. There are threads that display our own brand of humor and we were FLAMED by students for our attitudes. Students are more than welcome to ask me questions and I will explain things, but I resent students who tell us we are doing things wrong or are burned out because of how we handle situations. If most experienced nurses handle situations similarly, judgemental students should stop and think that all those experienced nurses can't be wrong.

OB_or_NICU_hopeful · Oct 7, 2006

I was not directing the RN/LVN at you. Please do not take offense.
I agree about having a cruddy night and wanting to vent. I do get upset when someone was a thread and the first response is "if your unhappy, leave!" But I have to say I doubt that only students write that. And I doubt that having an experienced nursing only forum would eliminate this.
I am all about having the forum, but I think I took offense to the "Experienced RN's" and the typo scenerio.
And OP, You still not have answered what an experienced nurse is.?.?.?.?.?
Edit to add: I LOVE THE FACT YOU USED YET-TO-BE in place of wanna-be. This would have eliminated alot of hurt feelings.
also spell checked for RWS:)

Ummm, it seems a "decade" is about right Or so I read in another equally charming post.

ortess1971 · Oct 7, 2006

The idealistic posts don't bother me...because I guess I don't worry what someone with no experience thinks. I'm a new nurse but have been in the healthcare field for about 5-6 years. In school, I saw classmates that were very righteous and idealistic because they had never worked in the field before. They weren't trying to be nasty, they just had no clue. I would just kind of smile to myself and think "Just wait... :rolleyes: " . I think an experienced nurses forum would be fine but I don't agree with banning students completely. Like the moderator said, just ignore the post if it offends you. Forums are meant to be an exchange of viewpoints and you always run the risk that someone isn't going to agree with you.(Some of us got used to that a LONG time ago! :mad: ) It's funny, I agree so much with the person who said they get wary if someone says a job is "perfect". I was due to have a bad day at work because things were going so well...I knew the axe had to drop eventually and I'm kind of glad it happened today because now I can stop worrying about it!

PANurseRN1 · Oct 7, 2006

Ummm, it seems a "decade" is about right Or so I read in another equally charming post.

Thank you. Just exercising my right to give an opinion, even if it conflicts with a "hopeful nurse to be." What you said is precisely why some of us feel the need to have a forum where we can speak without being judged by those who aren't our peers yet.

FWIW, if any of you veteran nurses out there feel the need to vent but don't want to deal with potential recriminations from students/newbies/hopefuls, you may always send me a PM. As a fellow vet, I can relate.

PANurseRN1 · Oct 7, 2006

The idealistic posts don't bother me...because I guess I don't worry what someone with no experience thinks. I'm a new nurse but have been in the healthcare field for about 5-6 years. In school, I saw classmates that were very righteous and idealistic because they had never worked in the field before. They weren't trying to be nasty, they just had no clue. I would just kind of smile to myself and think "Just wait... " . I think an experienced nurses forum would be fine but I don't agree with banning students completely. Like the moderator said, just ignore the post if it offends you. Forums are meant to be an exchange of viewpoints and you always run the risk that someone isn't going to agree with you.(Some of us got used to that a LONG time ago! ) It's funny, I agree so much with the person who said they get wary if someone says a job is "perfect". I was due to have a bad day at work because things were going so well...I knew the axe had to drop eventually and I'm kind of glad it happened today because now I can stop worrying about it!

The problem is, if students are allowed to post, they will bash some of the people who are venting. It has happened time and again. I recall a truly horrible thread where an experienced nurse posted why she no longer had the energy to precept (this, after doing so for over 20y). She got creamed by students and newbies. ("How can you be so selfish," "It's your duty to teach new nurses," "If you feel that way you should just get out," etc.)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: We experienced nurses have been where you new nurses/students are now. You, however, have not been in our shoes. Please bear that in mind.

smk1, LPN · Oct 7, 2006

I still would like to see a forum specifically for PRACTICING RN's, a safe place to vent and bounce things off each other.
But, as I see already from responses on this thread, students can't seem to follow directions and not post where they're not asked to.
So, as with everything in nursing, another good idea down the drain due to lack of support. Nothing will ever change in this profession.
Signing off.

Probably exactly what you need to do. :rolleyes:

There are so many veteran nurses that post on this board regularly about nursing issues that it can't be that hard to find a thorough discussion about XYZ. If it bothers you so much to wade through posts from people who are not experienced RN's this probably isn't the place for you. Not to mention that a veteran nurse could be an LPN. I have been on these boards for over 3 years when I was "just a prenursing wannabe" I learned a lot about the profession, different aspects of the job and different fields that I had no idea about. I learned from the vets like Tweety, Spacenurse, Sharon, Steph, Smilingblue eyes etc... They have been a vital part of my educational process in my humble opinion. I am now a nursing student and the posts that went completely over my head before are now starting to make sense. I can learn about new ways of doing things and rationales for treatments. I can get ideas on how to handle office politics. What makes the site fun, informative and a great place to post is that many people are welcomed here and because of that freely post and keep the site alive and kicking. Creating exclusive forums may seem like a good idea, but a lot of useful dialog and conversation can be missed. I would hate to think that students have no place in discussing general nursing concerns. Afterall that is what we live andbreath day in day out for 3-4 years. :nono: We might not have the experience and we may live in an ivory tower while in school, but so did you and every other nurse that is on this board. That is the process that you have to go through to get the license. Why not use your generous experience and education to teach the students instead of complaining about their "grammar" ( I corrected your spelling by the way because that seems to be a major cause of panic for you). In other words lighten up!