Just curious about your journey through NP school via distance. I was unable to find another thread which exclusively provided a "lived experience" list for those going through, or have been through the distance ed process.
As you are aware, there has been much derogatory comments, false statements, and other inflammatory remarks regarding distance education which I dismiss as nothing more than manifestations of insecurity within themselves, all from my estimation, made by those who have never been through the distance education NP program process. Unfortunately, I feel that comments such as these from uninformed individuals might place distance education in a bad light for those considering such pathways to career advancement.
Since distance education is a proven legitimate and viable option for NP's, I'd really like to hear other's experiences.
For those of you doing the NP route via distance, what has been your experience? Where are you going? What do you like/not like about the program? Have any regrets about not taking the traditional path, like going to classes on another's schedule, paying extra money to take you there in light of gas prices, etc? Do you feel that your experience has short-changed you as compared to going through a traditional program? If you had to do it over, would you have chosen the traditional path?
It's my understanding that these entrance exams (just like SATS, ACTS) are to help predict a students ability, in this case, the ability to complete graduate level work. Now I admit that I think that these tests are not a good indicators of success. I myself struggled when I took the GRE the first time. The main reason is because I had a almost totally science based education and the GRE and MAT are geared towards measuring one's knowledge of liberal arts, math and logic. I like many nurses, I suspect, scored the highest on the analytical/logic part of the GRE, because of our science based background.
Jlcole45:
I took the GRE twice (since I had more than 5 years between my Master's and PHD). I've also been involved in University admissions in one way or another since 1985 at two Top 25 universities.
Any survey of the literature about testing and graduate study indicates that the GRE is a good predictor for performance for most traditional, first-year graduate students. However, the literature also indicates that there are measurement errors for those from economically disadvantaged backgrounds, diverse backgrounds, non-native speakers of English, and non-traditional students. The Education Testing Service reports indicate that the test is designed for those who are younger, and that it should not be used for "older students". ETS defines "older" as those above age 30.
Nursing is one of the few disciplines where BA/BS graduate are not encouraged to enter graduate study right away. At my institution, the mean age of MSN students is 33 and is 38 for doctoral students (DNP and PHD). As long as nursing as a discipline values professional experience before graduate study, I expect that we will not be seeing many 22 year olds enter doctoral programs. This is a different pattern from other disciplines (sciences, humanities, law, and medicine). At my university, only the Education School has graduate students of a similar age.
Rather that use the GRE (which the literature suggests benefits younger, upper/middle class Caucasian students), we use other elements to assess an applicants aptitude for practice-based graduate study. This includes one's writing ability (essays), professional behaviors exhibitied (CV and recommendations), whether candidates are involved in professional organizations and conferences, their engagement in evidence-based practice, etc. We feel that these elements give a better indication of potential in graduate nursing practice programs than does their ability to remember high school algebra/geometry.
Our faculty have discussed this issue extensively over past five years. While some graduate programs prefer to enroll younger students (and thus emphasize the GRE in admissions), at UVA we have a committment to economic, social, ethnic, age, and geographic diversity.
All of the programs I looked into in my state require either a GRE or MAT - and I would be suspect of the ones who waive it just because its a nursing degree. One I applied to wanted me to take the MAT regardless of the fact that I already have a Master's degree - all others waived it since I have a grad degree.-
It's my understanding that these entrance exams (just like SATS, ACTS) are to help predict a students ability, in this case, the ability to complete graduate level work. Now I admit that I think that these tests are not a good indicators of success. I myself struggled when I took the GRE the first time. The main reason is because I had a almost totally science based education and the GRE and MAT are geared towards measuring one's knowledge of liberal arts, math and logic. I like many nurses, I suspect, scored the highest on the analytical/logic part of the GRE, because of our science based background.
Nonetheless, if all other professional programs require these entrance exams for graduate school - then so should we.
Hi, for some reason you included a quote from me--not my quote.
Many schools/programs are eliminating the need for the GRE - not just nursing. I have an MBA from Marylhurst University in Oregon (listed as a top school in the US News evaluations) and I never sat the GRE exam. They also felt it was a poor indicator of success - like most standardized tests are. IMO, schools that still require it are the same schools that are slow to adapt and have less vibrant, "old school" type programs. I for one do not learn well sitting in a classroom having an instructor read their powerpoint slides to me - what a waste. I can read on my own, give me an online program any day.
If you need info spoon-fed, do a brick and mortar. If you find that style irritating and are independent and highly self motivated, you'll do well in an online program. (Gross generalization - there are always exceptions of course...)
Just like with anything, there are good schools/instructors and bad schools/instructors both online and in-person, but if you're doing online courses, at least you don't have to waste your time listening to the bad ones drone on for hours on end when you'd rather be at home reading the material on your own.
All of the programs I looked into in my state require either a GRE or MAT - and I would be suspect of the ones who waive it just because its a nursing degree. One I applied to wanted me to take the MAT regardless of the fact that I already have a Master's degree - all others waived it since I have a grad degree.-
It's my understanding that these entrance exams (just like SATS, ACTS) are to help predict a students ability, in this case, the ability to complete graduate level work. Now I admit that I think that these tests are not a good indicators of success. I myself struggled when I took the GRE the first time. The main reason is because I had a almost totally science based education and the GRE and MAT are geared towards measuring one's knowledge of liberal arts, math and logic. I like many nurses, I suspect, scored the highest on the analytical/logic part of the GRE, because of our science based background.
Nonetheless, if all other professional programs require these entrance exams for graduate school - then so should we.
I'm not sure why this quote is being attributed to me, because I never made it. Although, I agree that all graduate programs should require an entrance exam.
If you need info spoon-fed, do a brick and mortar. If you find that style irritating and are independent and highly self motivated, you'll do well in an online program. (Gross generalization - there are always exceptions of course...)
Not everyone who prefers on-campus classes has to be spoon fed everything. Some people appreciate the variety and learning that come from the real world experiences of instructors (because you know nursing theory is not like the real world.)
I've always had mixed feelings about online courses.
As far as thinking that online allows you to cut to the chase and save time, this must be a joke. Online classes are very time consuming, and I think needlessly participating in endless classroom forums are worse than boring lectures. Any time you think you've saved by not having to go to lecture is more than made up for by the amount of time you spend on those darned discussion boards.
A young, unencumbered person should be grateful they can attend courses. They should be eager to study for and score well on the GRE. There is no way I'd go to school online in such a situation. Younger people need the mentoring of the old ones.
Online schools have a purpose but should not take the place of on-ground schools. Too many people flock to online programs because they think it is the easy and convenient way out. I would like to think that most people find this isn't true and therefore this weeds out the riff raff. I know that the grades I've made online pretty well represent the grades I've made in my on campus classes. But this is just at the one university (MTSU.) I took a class at APU awhile back (an online college) and it was a bit of a joke. Thing is, this college is accredited and grants real degrees. If all the courses were like the ones I took I would be ashamed to accept a degree from them. I just think it's too easy to dilly-dally around with online programs and then pass them off as legitimate, even if they are not. The crummy online programs ruin it for the online programs that really do adhere to higher standards.
Working during graduate school, when I get there, is not going to be a choice for me...if I want to eat and not graduate with debt that I'll never pay off, I will have to work.
I have discussed graduate school with as many people willing to talk to me about it...they all say the same thing: It's different than undergrad, mainly b/c they know that most of their students work and have families, so they have designed the program so both are possible.
Some of the top schools in the nation are doing away with GRE scores and some of the better colleges are even doing away with SAT scores.
To say that a nursing program is inferior just because someone can work while attending a program????
That's a slap in the face to the ones that are doing it.
Some people for whatever reason, have strong feelings about distance ed. Its not to say they are wrong, however, I would like to see a research study which shows that - distance-ed = poorly prepared APNs.
The subject of this thread is anyone having experience with distance ed MSN programs. So....to debate the "is distance ed good" is off-topic. Please stay on topic.
Have done Army medic, LPN, ADN, and BSN in classroom. Just finished five semester ANP/GNP master's proram which was a mix. After my UNC system school looked you over for the first couple of semesters much of the coursework began to be on-line with a sometimes weekly or every other week full day (sometimes 10 hours) of class. The last (fifth) semester's clinical hours were essentially 40 hour weeks so we met rarely and there was NO ONE working full time unless they weren't sleeping.
I agree with the previous posts concerning on-line formats having plenty of validity. I am sure that like all things in life distance education programs are not created equally. On-line classes can be very interactive and demanding. I got a lot of out of the required on-line discussions and question/answer sessions. They were frequently more to the point than rambling classroom discussions and targeted the subject matter in an interesting way.
I utilized my time better at home and spent less time on what I already knew and more time on what I needed to study. I am perfectly capable of reviewing a powerpoint presentation from my home in front of the roaring fire with a nice cup of tea and lots of concentration. I probably got more out of that kind of day than when I wasted three hours just driving to get to a class and was then rewarded with 10 hours of class in one day. Do you detect some bitterness here?? Who can retain info or pay attention after that many hours in class????
I would have to say that I learned it all in clinical anyway. That is where it all comes together. So,my advice to anyone seeking an NP degree is to make sure you put a lot of effort into arranging the best clinical training experiences possible.
Also consider that many specialty NP degrees are not readily accessible. There are zero acute care NP programs in NC. If your interest lies in a specialty you will quite likely be facing some distance education.
I won't address the politics. Just to point out that both the UC Davis and Stanford programs were designed as PA programs under the MEDEX model (which could be considered one of the first distance learning programs). They took advantage of vagaries in California law to graduate FNPs which had a better practice act in the early days of the program. This has largely disappeared and the differences in the nursing programs make it unlikely that this will continue.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
David Carpenter, PA-C
lol- he is correct- my stepmom is a PA/NP with Kaiser in Sacramento. She worked as a RN then RN/ First assist for years then went to UCDavis' dual program- she has little choice but to practice as a PA- esp in surgical spec....her classmates working as WHCNPs @ Kaiser roughly do a pap every 16 minutes :)
Working during graduate school, when I get there, is not going to be a choice for me...if I want to eat and not graduate with debt that I'll never pay off, I will have to work.
I have discussed graduate school with as many people willing to talk to me about it...they all say the same thing: It's different than undergrad, mainly b/c they know that most of their students work and have families, so they have designed the program so both are possible.
Some of the top schools in the nation are doing away with GRE scores and some of the better colleges are even doing away with SAT scores.
To say that a nursing program is inferior just because someone can work while attending a program????
That's a slap in the face to the ones that are doing it.
Same here. I must work. I'm in my second to last semester with the online program through SLU in missouri. Still working 40 hours a week. For how long, I don't know but I still have to eat and pay my bills.
ghillbert, MSN, NP
3,796 Posts
I don't know that "because everyone else is doing it" is a good rationale for requiring something.